Help me get into reloading

[Josh89]

I'm probably not going to be doing it anytime soon,but are 223 and 5.56 brass the same specs.i read yes and no answers but no one cited if they had any actual experience with it.

 

[jordanka16]

5.56 brass is often thicker, It's what I use exclusively but I don't have any rifles chambered in .223.

the difference is very slight, if you go from .223 to 5.56 brass it's a good idea to work up loads again for safety.

 

[bbbass]

I was using the Lee manual and copper plated bullets,the max it recommended was 5.4

Is that info in the manual for lead bullets?

Ok, here is a scan of a page out of the Lasercast manual (hard lead alloy bullets). You should be able to load to these specs easily without exceeding the fps warning that comes with plated bullets. Note there is a min a max charge for each powder. Universal w 230gr LRN bullets starts at 5.4gr and goes up to 5.9gr... that would mean that at 4.8gr you are seriously underloaded. One thing we haven't mentioned is that you should ALWAYS start at the min load, then work up towards max. Being undercharged can be a problem/risk with some cases. Best not to risk it til you get more experience.



You are doing well, keep up the good work!!!

 

[Member 5605]

5.56 brass is often thicker, It's what I use exclusively but I don't have any rifles chambered in .223.

the difference is very slight, if you go from .223 to 5.56 brass it's a good idea to work up loads again for safety.

Eh...

I shoot mixed .223 and 5.56 in my loads. For accuracy... maybe keep headstamps separate; but with a SD of 6 on mixed headstamps I'll have to rule that one "unconfirmed".

5.56 & .223 brass now days has less to do with brass thickness as it does the leade. Trim to 1.750" and load..

That's adding I don't shoot 1985 NATO stamped brass either.

The new Hornady book has 5.56 NATO loads.

 

[bbbass]

I'm probably not going to be doing it anytime soon,but are 223 and 5.56 brass the same specs.i read yes and no answers but no one cited if they had any actual experience with it.

Is your rifle chambered for .223 or for 5.56? There is a difference in brass, and tho it is small it is important. I'm not sure regarding reloading cases... I do know that factory ammo is not interchangeable (dangerous to try to shoot 5.56 in a .223 barrel because the 5.56 is larger). For me it's not worth the hassle to swage so I just stick to .223.

FYI: ar15barrels.com/data/223vs556.pdf

 

[bsa1917hunter]

You call it slop, I call it the self aligning feature

Now that is funny....

 

[bsa1917hunter]

Eh...

I shoot mixed .223 and 5.56 in my loads. For accuracy... maybe keep headstamps separate; but with a SD of 6 on mixed headstamps I'll have to rule that one "unconfirmed".

5.56 & .223 brass now days has less to do with brass thickness as it does the leade. Trim to 1.750" and load..

That's adding I don't shoot 1985 NATO stamped brass either.

The new Hornady book has 5.56 NATO loads.

That's pretty cool and damn small SD for mixed headstamp. I've messed around with 5.56 brass in my .223 rem rifles and like you say, just trim to length and no problems. Also work up since the brass does seem to be thicker. Hasn't been an issue for me either....

 

[Josh89]

Is that info in the manual for lead bullets?

Ok, here is a scan of a page out of the Lasercast manual (hard lead alloy bullets). You should be able to load to these specs easily without exceeding the fps warning that comes with plated bullets. Note there is a min a max charge for each powder. Universal w 230gr LRN bullets starts at 5.4gr and goes up to 5.9gr... that would mean that at 4.8gr you are seriously underloaded. One thing we haven't mentioned is that you should ALWAYS start at the min load, then work up towards max. Being undercharged can be a problem/risk with some cases. Best not to risk it til you get more experience.

View attachment 343772

You are doing well, keep up the good work!!!

I was a little over minimum charge according to this one

 

[bbbass]

View attachment 343774

I was a little over minimum charge according to this one

Wow! Looks like you have significant wiggle room there. I work up .2gr at a time 5 shells each charge/increment from min to max and take to the range. Shoot until I find reliability, then accuracy. Then load up at least 20 for a verification that everything is working to my expectations per earlier testing. Some people do it differently, this is just my way.

What he said:

I will find the lowest low and lowest high and use those as my 'baseline'.

 

[Member 5605]

Is that info in the manual for lead bullets?

Ok, here is a scan of a page out of the Lasercast manual (hard lead alloy bullets). You should be able to load to these specs easily without exceeding the fps warning that comes with plated bullets. Note there is a min a max charge for each powder. Universal w 230gr LRN bullets starts at 5.4gr and goes up to 5.9gr... that would mean that at 4.8gr you are seriously underloaded. One thing we haven't mentioned is that you should ALWAYS start at the min load, then work up towards max. Being undercharged can be a problem/risk with some cases. Best not to risk it til you get more experience.

View attachment 343772

You are doing well, keep up the good work!!!

Yes BBBass... what's their OAL thats published. I'm betting it's longer than 1.200"...

View attachment 343774

I was a little over minimum charge according to this one

Yes, and looking at it all of the data provided the Hodgdon website has the SHORTEST bullet and the lightest powder weights. It's more likely you will need to use another loading manual for your pistol because of friction and recoil spring.

Less space means a quicker spike in pressures. By lengthening the bullet out on the other published loads they are able to have more powder with similar velocities. Hold a firecracker in your fist and lose a hand, hold it in your finger tips and it stings. Same concept.

Nobody here is saying (intentionally) to use 5.4gr+ when using 1.200" OAL. Pick a manual that has a longer OAL with a higher charge.

 

[bbbass]

Yes BBBass... what's their OAL thats published. I'm betting it's longer than 1.200"...




Yes, and looking at it all of the data provided the Hodgdon website has the SHORTEST bullet and the lightest powder weights. It's more likely you will need to use another loading manual for your pistol because of friction and recoil spring.

Less space means a quicker spike in pressures. By lengthening the bullet out on the other published loads they are able to have more powder with similar velocities. Hold a firecracker in your fist and lose a hand, hold it in your finger tips and it stings. Same concept.

Nobody here is saying (intentionally) to use 5.4gr+ when using 1.200" OAL. Pick a manual that has a longer OAL with a higher charge.

Agreed, good point!!!

 

[Tilos]

View attachment 343774

I was a little over minimum charge according to this one

Josh89:
Trying not to wade into the load data swamp here, and suggest you try HP-38/W231 powder, as I think you said you have some.

 

[bsa1917hunter]

BTW:

Speer #14:
View attachment 343682

Hornady #10:
View attachment 343683 View attachment 343684

Notice the OAL differences?
Speer puts 1.260" while Hornady runs 1.210"

Meanwhile your book says 1.200" and runs less powder than all of them. There is a correlation. Deeper seated bullet = less powder used because there is less volume in the case.

As another note:
Don't be afraid to ask for load data from books if people have them, almost everyone will drop a screen shot of them.

I love the screen shots man. I use a lot of hornady bullets and that 10th edition is one I don't have. I like seeing longshot in there, as you get some ridiculous velocities from that powder. I believe my manual lists universal which used to be universal clays with the 230gr pills. I use 5.8 grains of that powder with excellent results from my smith 4506. That's one excellent bowling pin load...

 

[bsa1917hunter]

Universal powder 4.8 charge and 230 gr plated rn

That's 1 grain less than I run....

 

[DirectDrive]

Some popular pistol powders close up...
(click on pic for larger image)

 

[Josh89]

Take it it works good for you then,what kind of gun do you run them thru?

 

[bsa1917hunter]

Take it it works good for you then,what kind of gun do you run them thru?

Josh, I don't know if this question was meant for me, but I love that powder. It works flawlessly in my 45 and my 40. It is a real clean burning powder and I use the same amount of powder (5.8 grains) for each cartridge. The 45 I run 230gr. Hornady XTP's and HSM copper plated bullets, while I generally just use the 180gr. XTP in my 40 S&W. That is the sweet spot for both pistols, which makes it so easy to remember the loads. I've also tried power pistol which makes a lot of noise and muzzle flash with some good velocity, but mucho recoil and also everyone's favorite, unique: Which I found to be a dirty pig. Sorry guys I don't like that powder at all. I got into using universal and clays powder when I shot trap competitively and loved how clean it burned. It's the same in a pistol. Here are my 2 pistols I use universal in:

 

[Josh89]

Josh, I don't know if this question was meant for me, but I love that powder. It works flawlessly in my 45 and my 40. It is a real clean burning powder and I use the same amount of powder (5.8 grains) for each cartridge. The 45 I run 230gr. Hornady XTP's and HSM copper plated bullets, while I generally just use the 180gr. XTP in my 40 S&W. That is the sweet spot for both pistols, which makes it so easy to remember the loads. I've also tried power pistol which makes a lot of noise and muzzle flash with some good velocity, but mucho recoil and also everyone's favorite, unique: Which I found to be a dirty pig. Sorry guys I don't like that powder at all. I got into using universal and clays powder when I shot trap competitively and loved how clean it burned. It's the same in a pistol. Here are my 2 pistols I use universal in:

View attachment 343837

Maybe I'll try working up and see how it goes.

 

[bsa1917hunter]

Should work out great. What you are looking for is a good accurate load that functions reliably in your pistol. Good luck with it...

 

[jrd541280]

I have a ruger p90 I bought about 25 years ago for my wife. Boy, was that a mistake-for her, turned out good for me. Any way, it's a 4.4" bbl. After it sat in it's box for a good number of years I pulled it out and put the press and chrony to work on it. I wanted to get a 230gr. Bullet out of it accurately and reliably at 850fps. What the 45acp was designed to do. (Keep in mind the 4.4bbl, not 5). I got accurate, and I got reliable, but I could not get 850fps. I got close, but at the very upper limits of charges and I was not comfortable with the "snap" I was getting on the recoil end. During all of this testing I kept pushing bottles of unique around to grab the new fangled powders i had aquired for this pistol. I thought I kept hearing a faint "try me" everytime reached in there. Finally, I tried the old new and improved unique. KZam. Lower ends produced lower 800's 2/3 up 850's never went any higher. Reliable, accurate, and turns a 230gr gold dot or xtp into "one ugly mutherbubbleguming 1" badazs eviscerator". The train into the abyss is so long now it's a full circle, it just keeps picking up new riders.