Handgun for Elderly neighbors

[Ops]

get them a 410

 

[STEELE]

I went thru the same issue with several of my family and friends in their 70-80s. All found the semis too "confusing", especially when confronted with a burglar (simulated.) Any DA revolver which fits their hands and which "shows" it's loaded by peering at the back of the cylinder. Point and squeeze can't be much improved on. The human brain must be "on target" before even picking up a weapon.

 

[FourTeeFive]

Got my wife a S&W 380 EZ and I like it more than I should. That said, hard to beat a regular old revolver for simplicity. I personally like Rugers.

 

[tlfreek]

some covered ground here as I went through this recently.

guns and old people

 

[DirectDrive]

Double action revolver with a trigger pull weight that they can work effectively.
I agree that even with the E-Z, the auto's controls will be too confusing under duress.

I think of that Wyoming elk hunter that had to face a grizzly with a G20 and no round in the chamber.
He grabbed the Glock and promptly dropped the mag.

 

[cigars]

Oh... I misunderstood the thread title. It sounded like you had a problem with these people. Never mind....

 

[Grizzly_A]

Like the others here, I echo the recommendations given the current constraints. Definitely recommend going to a range or gun shop and holding and racking to get an idea of the strength needed, and/or the size if it's a revolver.

1. Taurus Judge with .410 defensive ammo.
2. KelTec PMR30
3. Double action Revolver in soft shooting caliber. (22Mag, 25ACP, 380 auto)
4. Bersa Thunder or Walther PPK

 

[gmerkt]

I vote for the double action revolver. Simple to use, under stress all need be done is pull the trigger double action, no thought needed figuring anything out. Any necessary follow-up shots even easier. Some women and old people aren't wired to figure out slides and safeties. Some men, too, I'd wager.

The no rifles, no shotguns caveat is acknowledged. However, the mere showing of a long gun will send many ill-doers on their way. So a cheap single shot shotgun might do it.

As an elder, I can opine that the utility of a handgun for surprise home defense is somewhat reduced. Surprise meaning some kind of nocturnal need. A person might be asleep, might've used a medication to induce sleep, it's hard to get fully awake, then they might have to fumble around and find their glasses. The experience is one of general, momentary disorientation. The intruder already has a real big edge; they're wide awake. Under these circumstances, utility advantage of a handgun is questionable. It might be just as handy to grab a long gun. Granted, a handgun is easier to wield in close quarters.

I was just looking at the statistics for firearm deaths in the US in 2018. Over half are suicides. Followed by homicides, somewhere around 35%. The remainders in the pie charts are very narrow slices. The slice for "legal intervention," i.e., self defense and law enforcement, is very narrow. 1 or 2%.

 

[Mountainrunner]

I agree with the revolver, easy to use and easy to make safe. I nice used 38 special with 4" barrel and all is well. If grandkids are possibly in the mix then a decent pistol safe is a prudent measure. Things don't need to get complicated with speed loaders. This is how you open it, this is how you close it. This is how you load the cylinder and this is how you unload the cylinder. It's a tool for personal protection and doesn't need to be fancy, just functional.
Don't get me wrong, I like my complicated pistols but revolvers are just easy.
my $.02
Mountainrunner-

 

[Certaindeaf]

You remember those cutouts saying "you must be this tall" for amusement park rides? Well, one gun store has a pickle jar on the counter and a sign that reads, "you must be this strong" to buy a pistol.






not really

 

[American123]

If the old woman is going to use it too. Revolver.

 

[tdawg]

I am curious for those of you recommending a revolver, everything I have read shows that individuals with low strength (ie elderly females) do not do well with high recoil, and heavy trigger pulls which seems to be a bigger issue with revolvers than with Semis. I did take them out to the backyard (I live on 5 acres) today and they seemed to like the 380EZ, due to being able to keep it loaded with a manual safety, and the option to have a weapon light mounted. Also had them try a Glock 17 which proved to be to not a viable option d/t grip size. Neither of them had any issues with the grip safety or any FTF associated to limp wristing on the 380EZ.

 

[cigars]

I am curious for those of you recommending a revolver, everything I have read shows that individuals with low strength (ie elderly females) do not do well with high recoil, and heavy trigger pulls which seems to be a bigger issue with revolvers than with Semis. I did take them out to the backyard (I live on 5 acres) today and they seemed to like the 380EZ, due to being able to keep it loaded with a manual safety, and the option to have a weapon light mounted. Also had them try a Glock 17 which proved to be to not a viable option d/t grip size. Neither of them had any issues with the grip safety or any FTF associated to limp wristing on the 380EZ.

When my petite daughter was 13, she took a liking to my Ruger SP101 in 38 special. That thing has a lot more kick than any of my 45acp semi's. She also started bogarting my Marlin 1895 45-70 lever action. How she mitigates the recoil I have no idea but she can shoot the snot out of that thing. But for simplicity's sake, a revolver makes sense. No slide to rack and revolvers are inherently safe. Just find one in a managable caliber for the individual.

 

[American123]

For me it all boils down to how much deliberate practice they are actually going to put into becoming proficient with it. If this is truly a gun for both of them, then it truly needs to be workable by both of them.

Most of these - "I better finally buy a gun" people are buying a talisman - it will sit unused, unpracticed with after the initial range trip, if they ever even make it that far. For me, having tried to help people in similar situations, if you make it so easy for them they don't have to put forth much effort, really that is you projecting your passion on to them and not really them taking the plunge to make it happen for themselves - IMO.

Although semi auto's aren't overly complicated, they seem just complicated enough to be problematic, safeties, slide levers, decockers, magazine releases, a reciprocating slide, etc. all those things that in a high stress situation, without deliberate practice will be problematic. Revolvers, especially double action, are about as straight forward as it gets. Put bullets in the cylinder, pull trigger. A large framed .38 will not recoil significantly.

It's not that I am personally very found of revolvers. I've only ever bought 1 .38 SW air-weight prior to 594 and promptly sold it after the first range trip, wasn't for me compared to the about equal sized Sig p938.

I mean, ultimately they have to make the decision, and live with the consequences, I personally heavily prefer semi autos, bought my wife and mom semi autos - but they've also spent hours getting proficient, they aren't talismans.

 

[cigars]

I mean, ultimately they have to make the decision, and live with the consequences, I personally heavily prefer semi autos, bought my wife and mom semi autos - but they've also spent hours getting proficient, they aren't talismans.

Keep in mind that you're probably fairly young, strong and have decent reflexes. At their age it's a different animal. I'm mid 50's and I'm already feeling my mortality per se. When I was younger I could hip shoot an M-60 and not think twice about it. When age related reality sets in, well reality sets in. You don't care about what's tacticool anymore or what Rambo uses to take out a horde of evils and you can't do the things that you never thought twice about when you were younger and didn't have to think about how you need to negotiate a common task. On a day by day basis you chose the path of what you can physically manage to still be effective. Those who know, know.

 

[Howard1955]

Are there other trusted friends or family members in your area who could allow them to test drive various guns?

It's hard to know what to recommend, not knowing anything about the people you're helping. If they have enough money, they can get two or three different guns, to fill different niches.

The larger 9mm pistols that have braces don't recoil very much, and can hold larger magazines. Something like that might be good for home defense.



If they're only looking for a carry gun, then recoil and cocking/charging the weapon are issues. There are low-power .38 cartridges that wouldn't have much recoil, if they decided on a revolver.

The mouse guns in the small calibers might be better than nothing, and some don't have to be racked since they have a tip-up barrel. They might be happy with a couple of the little Beretta .22's or .25's





If they're strong enough, an XD or XDM 9mm pistol might be a good choice. There are several sizes available, they all have a grip safety, and a light/laser can be attached easily. The Crimson Trace "instinctive activation" is a great help, since it comes on when the gun is gripped normally.



Good luck.

 

[Alexx1401]

I am curious for those of you recommending a revolver, everything I have read shows that individuals with low strength (ie elderly females) do not do well with high recoil, and heavy trigger pulls which seems to be a bigger issue with revolvers than with Semis. I did take them out to the backyard (I live on 5 acres) today and they seemed to like the 380EZ, due to being able to keep it loaded with a manual safety, and the option to have a weapon light mounted. Also had them try a Glock 17 which proved to be to not a viable option d/t grip size. Neither of them had any issues with the grip safety or any FTF associated to limp wristing on the 380EZ.

Many wheel guns, especially new ones can be a "challenge" to people with weak hands. There tends to be a lot of hand work to make a wheel gun action smooth. There are springs that can be used on many to help but then you can go too far and have ignition reliability problems.
Also of course many people like that will not do well with larger calibers that have more recoil. The old axiom about if you can only miss it does little good.
Many autos are FAR easier to use, and many have no safety or can be kept with no safety on. Wife's "house" pistol is like this. It's an 18 round 9mm. There is a safety. It is not used. It has a very easy trigger to use. Being full size the slide is easy to rack if needed. Bottom line though if she wakes up and needs it, all she has to do is start squeezing the trigger and there is 18 ready to go. Its big and heavy which is great for a home gun. It soaks up recoil of good ammo makes it easy to shoot.
This again though is why someone who is not a shooter really needs to be able to try different guns before they buy. It's a big hassle now if someone buys a gun, then finds they do not like it and want something else.

 

[cigars]

Many wheel guns, especially new ones can be a "challenge" to people with weak hands. There tends to be a lot of hand work to make a wheel gun action smooth. There are springs that can be used on many to help but then you can go too far and have ignition reliability problems.
Also of course many people like that will not do well with larger calibers that have more recoil. The old axiom about if you can only miss it does little good.
Many autos are FAR easier to use, and many have no safety or can be kept with no safety on. Wife's "house" pistol is like this. It's an 18 round 9mm. There is a safety. It is not used. It has a very easy trigger to use. Being full size the slide is easy to rack if needed. Bottom line though if she wakes up and needs it, all she has to do is start squeezing the trigger and there is 18 ready to go. Its big and heavy which is great for a home gun. It soaks up recoil of good ammo makes it easy to shoot.
This again though is why someone who is not a shooter really needs to be able to try different guns before they buy. It's a big hassle now if someone buys a gun, then finds they do not like it and want something else.

So we've basically boiled it down to a Ruger SR-22. If they each had one at 10+1 then that would be a serious amount of hurt coming at some perp. Remember, bleed em' out....

 

[American123]

Keep in mind that you're probably fairly young, strong and have decent reflexes. At their age it's a different animal. I'm mid 50's and I'm already feeling my mortality per se. When I was younger I could hip shoot an M-60 and not think twice about it. When age related reality sets in, well reality sets in. You don't care about what's tacticool anymore or what Rambo uses to take out a horde of evils and you can't do the things that you never thought twice about when you were younger and didn't have to think about how you need to negotiate a common task. On a day by day basis you chose the path of what you can physically manage to still be effective. Those who know, know.

Totally - which is why I advocated a revolver

And added credibility to my suggestion by saying that even though I personally heavily prefer semi-autos - based on the information provided, revolver seems to be their ticket. Large framed .38 spl

 

[American123]

So we've basically boiled it down to a Ruger SR-22. If they each had one at 10+1 then that would be a serious amount of hurt coming at some perp. Remember, bleed em' out....

If they both have the same gun, and in .22 lr - that's a great solution.