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Guy kills robber and is busted for the gun, not the shooting

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by chemist, Mar 23, 2011.

  1. chemist

    chemist Beaverton OR Well-Known Member

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    This is what my old home town has turned into, an abscessed rathole of drug-crazed killers.

    Cleveland man who killed robbery suspect faces a gun charge | cleveland.com

    "CLEVELAND, OHIO -- A 23-year-old man who fatally shot a robbery suspect faces a gun charge, but is not charged in the homicide.
    Ricardo Rice, of Orville Avenue, is due in Cuyahoga County Common Pleas Court Tuesday. He is charged with having a gun after a felony conviction and is free on a $5,000 bond."

    "According to police, Null robbed 28-year-old Sean Haynes on the street, then held the gun to Haynes' back and walked with him to Rice's home.
    Rice saw what was happening, grabbed a handgun, opened the door and pulled Haynes inside. Rice then fired twice at Null as he closed the door."

    Okay, so our shooter Rice shouldn't have been packing illegally (which most drug dealers do to keep from being ripped off) and he shouldn't have been dealing drugs in the first place, but....

    Mr. Rice saved one man's life, and put an armed robber down. And how about that corpse's name, Mr. Null? Even his momma - sorry, grandmother - didn't show any sympathy for him:
    "He was smart and could have done anything, but he chose this," she said.
    19-year-old Cleveland man shot dead while committing robbery | cleveland.com

    I don't know what to think about this. Rice was apparently minding his own business when this went down. Who knows, maybe Null wanted to get into Rice's home because he expected to find drugs or cash there. But if you think the 2nd and 4th Amendments don't apply only to the cleanest and purest among us, then even a criminal-citizen has the right to defend his life and his home.

    Sure, go ahead with the glib "let them all kill each other" nonsense comments, but in my mind this is a real and growing problem, as more and more citizens are denied basic freedoms and have to choose between breaking the law or standing up for themselves.
     
  2. Redcap

    Redcap Lewis County, WA Well-Known Member

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    Asinine.
     
  3. RallySoob

    RallySoob Salem, OR Active Member

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    It is the law though. I mean a fellon isn't supposed to have a gun...what can you say? I'm glad he saved a friend or whatever but that's why they didn't charge him in the Homicide you know... But he was breaking the law in that he had a gun so whats the beef with police on this? I don't understand what you are trying to say exactly. Felons should be able to have guns afterall? Just in case a drug deal goes bad he should be able to defend himself? How about, he shouldn't be dealing drugs, he shouldn't have gotten a felony...since he did he has to suffer the consequence of not being able to own a gun. Done. ...am I missing something?
     
  4. waltermitty

    waltermitty seattle Active Member

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    on the surface, i dont have a problem with the decision. i'm focusing on the act
    and the offence, vs the end result-justification-get-out-of-jail-free-card.
     
  5. RallySoob

    RallySoob Salem, OR Active Member

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    I think a felon does have the right to self defense but only through legal means. I'm not allowed to defend myself with a RPG or FA M4 because its illegal for me specifically. In his case a gun is illegal. Should have practiced throwing knives or something. Gotta emprivise. Can't just break the law because its convenient...
     
  6. toddt36

    toddt36 tacoma Member

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    Kinda reminds me of that guy in New York on the subway who shot 2 robbers who didn't have his concealed. I think after all was said and done he walked away with a slap on the wrist. I think alot of that might have been the fact he had good legal help. I have my opinions on that go further on this subject but that would be over a cold beer between friends.
     
  7. RallySoob

    RallySoob Salem, OR Active Member

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    ya but was that guy previously a drug dealer or was he an upstanding citizen? Wondering if we are comparing apples to oranges. A good citizen carrying concealed for protection is a bit different than a felon having a gun in a judges or DA's eyes, I would assume.
     
  8. toddt36

    toddt36 tacoma Member

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    No doubt about that, just trying to find something fairly similar in memory. Drug dealers are bad guys (unless you are a pharmaceutical then its ok) insert humor here
     
  9. chemist

    chemist Beaverton OR Well-Known Member

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    Okay, thanks all, I wanted gauge your opinions.

    Too often people espouse 2A as this all-transcending right irrespective of circumstances. I'm glad to see that consensus says that he has to go down for the illegal iron. I agree.

    But...
    Crack cocaine convictions carry much harsher consequences than those for powder cocaine. Frat boys from Yale get off scot-free while first-offenders who were born into poverty go down for felonies.
    Do we really think that a single fcuk-up by an 18-year-old should be sufficient reason to bar his legal gun ownership forever? There may be some theoretical process to restore those rights, but in practice it's all but closed to someone on the margins of society.

    My fear is that as the new American police-state mentality marches on, more and more of us will be labelled criminals and barred from legal ownership. No, we won't be crack dealers, but who knows what will be next. Right now misdemeanor domestic violence convictions disqualify you from a CHL. What's next? They search your truck in the Post Office parking lot and find your gun, then offer you a "no-gun" probation in exchange for dropping Federal charges?

    "First they came for the communists,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
    Then they came for the trade unionists,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
    Then they came for the Jews,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
    Then they came for me
    and there was no one left to speak out for me."
    - Pastor Martin Niemoller
     
  10. RallySoob

    RallySoob Salem, OR Active Member

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    I hear where your coming from...You can get a felony for driving over 100mph now. When I was in highschool (10+yrs ago) I got a 100mph+ ticket and it wasn't that big of a deal but its hard for me to have pitty on crack dealers or users. Same with meth heads. I know good people that have fallen victim to meth but you know its a choice and they chose to take the risk. Same with robbing a bank or whatever...weigh the risks people. The government has always been hard pressing the ghetto's since the creation of ghettos. Its how our society is... I heard they are trying to get random checkpoints going again in order to catch more drunk drivers. They did it in the 80's...its nothing new. Its an ongoing battle for 'We the people'
     
  11. Kimber Custom

    Kimber Custom Vancouver, WA Bronze Vendor Bronze Vendor

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    Any of you fish, pick wild mushrooms/berries (even bringing home groceries from the store!) or hunt? Check out the Lacey Act

    It is unlawful for any person to import, export, transport, sell, receive, acquire, possess, or purchase any fish, wildlife, or plant taken, possessed, transported, or sold in violation of any Federal, State, foreign, or Indian tribal law, treaty, or regulation.

    And guess what? It's a felony.

    My point is there are so many laws on the books that if they want you they will get you.
     
  12. chemist

    chemist Beaverton OR Well-Known Member

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    Wow:
    "it prohibits the importation, exportation, transportation, sale, or purchase of fish and wildlife taken or possessed in violation of State, Federal, Indian tribal, and foreign laws??"

    So the Feds say that they can take me down for a felony if I fall afoul of the fish & game laws in some random foreign country? WTF kind of law is that?
     
  13. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't,they can and do all the time,get it expunged and then they aren't a felon and can own a gun. I know people that have done this.
     
  14. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    The Lacey Act (18 U.S.C. 42; 16 U.S.C. 3371-3378)

    They would have to show that the animal fish or vegetable was from another country before they would be able to convict you,so this is a little misleading
     
  15. Kimber Custom

    Kimber Custom Vancouver, WA Bronze Vendor Bronze Vendor

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    True, to a point.

    The purpose of the law is to give more teeth to the illegal importation. The point is (this was all taken from the video link in the 5th ammendment 101 thread) there are so many laws on the books (according to the video the fed can't even count) that it is impossible for us to not break the law somewhere, somehow in a mannor that we *could* be prossocuted for. Even if you come out on top you still lose a lot of time and money in the process.
     
  16. VW_Factor

    VW_Factor Woodburn Oregon Active Member

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    After serving your time, and going through a process, a once felon can restore their gun rights.
     
  17. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like the police did what was reasonable under the circumstances. The law is there whether we agree with it or not we must obey it. I'd say he got two great breaks, one in saving his own life, and two in getting a reasonable charge considering the fact he was breaking the law.

    The time to argue the merits of the constitutionality of a law is not after you have broken and been arrested for breaking that law, because at that point you are a "Defendant" not a "Proponent", big difference. ;)
     
  18. billdeserthills

    billdeserthills Cave Creek, Arizony Well-Known Member

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    The road to **** is paved with good intentions
     
  19. A.I.P.

    A.I.P. UpperUS Active Member

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    This reminds me of "Gulag Archipeligo"
    A sailor used a pocket knife to defend himself after leaving a bar during a mugging. Assailant was a member of Commie Party. Guess who was sent to the Gulag in Siberia, for life at hard labour in the mines?
     
  20. gaijinsamurai

    gaijinsamurai Beaverton Well-Known Member 2016 Volunteer

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    As a former Parole & Probation Officer, I'm all for letting felons have their records expunged after they've paid their debts to society, successfully complete probation/parole, and show they can be law abiding citizens.