Gunbroker “Ithaca” 1911A1 Issue

[TKO]

I just won an auction for a 100% "Ithaca" 1911a1. The price was a little over 1300. However he sent an email sincerely apologizing for accidental misrepresentation. Turns out the gun has an Ithaca slide with a Remington Rand frame. He offered to lower the price down to 1000 shipped. Is this still a decent deal? I would definitely shoot it, but would like to, if I absolutely have to be able to at least sell it at cost down the road. Because of the mistake, he also said I could back out of the auction no harm no fail. I am leaning more towards going through with it. What are you guys thoughts?

So yay or nay, what are you guys thoughts?

Would it be correct to swap out the wood grips for brown plastic ones as well?

Also, would restoring it professionally take value away?

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I just won an auction for a 100% "Ithaca" 1911a1. The price was a little over 1300. However he sent an email sincerely apologizing for accidental misrepresentation. Turns out the gun has an Ithaca slide with a Remington Rand frame. He offered to lower the price down to 1000 shipped. Is this still a decent deal? I would definitely shoot it, but would like to, if I absolutely have to be able to at least sell it at cost down the road. Because of the mistake, he also said I could back out of the auction no harm no fail. I am leaning more towards going through with it. What are you guys thoughts?

So yay or nay, what are you guys thoughts?

Would it be correct to swap out the wood grips for brown plastic ones as well?

Also, would restoring it professionally take value away?

View attachment 615732 View attachment 615733 View attachment 615734

 

[TKO]

Brownsalamander.....I agree with everyone's replies. They gave good advice.

 

[Brownsalamander]

Brownsalamander.....I agree with everyone's replies. They gave good advice.

I followed their advice and backed out of it. The buyer was good to go. My search continues.

 

[TKO]

I followed their advice and backed out of it. The buyer was good to go. My search continues.

Roger that. I'd personally look at this forums "for sale" listing. At least
you can see it in person. Good luck to you!

 

[Brownsalamander]

Here's the kicker. I called and told him last night I'm gonna pass. The link provided for the new gunbroker auction is different than what I won on the auction. I'm glad I backed out. He originally listed it as a 1943 all Ithaca 1911. Now he's changed his ad. Maybe it's due to him doing better research (he said people kept messaging that he was incorrect in his posting). Or maybe it was malicious intent. Either way, I'm glad I passed. There's too many things changed this time around he posted it.

 

[Brownsalamander]

Coincidently which would you experts say is if higher quality, the Remingtons or Ithaca's?

 

[Alexx1401]

Coincidently which would you experts say is if higher quality, the Remingtons or Ithaca's?

This is going to be EXTREMELY subjective. You will get all kinds of opinions on a question like that. Main thing it comes down too is do you want a collector pistol or a shooter? If you want a collector then a lot goes by how many were ever made. Some that were never made in large quantity of course bring higher price. If you want a shooter? I would just buy a nice new 1911. There is a thread here from a short time ago about this. "Would you carry a Mil Issue 1911" or something like that. The bottom line is no matter how good a shape one is in you are talking about a pistol made before many improvements were found. These things are cool to see and I kind of miss some of the ones I had back in the day they were far more common but, I would not want to spend the kind of money they go for just to have one to shoot. Sights SUCK on these and few want to add new sights to one as it hurts collectable value. So if you want one to put away as a collector, maybe shoot once in a while just for fun? It would not really matter who made it. Would want it all original. If you want a 1911 to have fun with and or carry? Just buy a modern one. Market if flooded with great ones right now to choose from.

 

[Alexx1401]

you guys are all a bit off - most of the 1911a1's out there are 'mixmasters - that is what happened in the rebuilds through the years. PLEASE tell me where you can get a 1911a1 (both manufacturers are 1911a1's ???) for WAY less than a $1000 that are GI parts? WHERE?


Doesn't say it doesn't happen, but the CMP cheapest were $850 and $1050 (shipped) and this was generally a steal.

RUN??

Come on guys....

All of these sell for what to me are insane prices. There is a real glut in the gun market right now which has to have made these come down a little too but the CMP thing is a great example. When the last round of them was mentioned they were coming MANY were grousing about the listed price and saying no way. I said not for me either but watch how fast they sell. Sure enough I have yet to read of them not being able to find buyers for them. Last one I saw was over a decade back. RR that was in VERY poor condition. It was so bad I did not even ask to see it. Price was the same as some NIB S/A Stainless Loaded 1911's. Next week when I went to shoot someone had grabbed it up. Looking at there now and then on the auction someone has to be buying some of them even at the prices they are asking. Even with the glut of guns some "just have to have" one of these when they see one.

 

[RVTECH]

I am normally very trusting and tend to give the benefit of the doubt but in this case I see a smooth operator with a slick scam.
His offer to lower the price first was an indicator. If you had agreed to buy (at a price that still seems high) then he is successful. You back out as he offers and he still 'wins' as you cannot leave any bad feedback, and he simply starts over but this time he advertises it correctly.
This plan could be applied to a variety of items sold at online auctions.

 

[Olderguy]

Hmmm, what else did he not tell you? I would decline the purchase and look elsewhere.

 

[Kruel J]

Good call on walking away from this deal.

 

[titsonritz]

Whenever there is any doubt, there is no doubt ...

 

[RVTECH]

This could have been a completely innocent misrepresentation of the gun by someone with little 1911 knowledge or a very slick scam as suggested.
Think of it this way - you have already 'won' the auction and are excited about it. Then you are informed of the 'mistake' - regardless of this I think many people would buy at the reduced price due to their 'excited' position about winning the auction. An interesting psychological ploy....
I could apply this to the 1899 Winchester I am selling. Post it as a .25-35 instead of the .30-30 it is and bids would skyrocket. Then try the same approach with the buyer.
Do NOT look for an 1899 Winchester in .25-35 on GB !

 

[flylo]

You won an auction for a matching Ithica so I wait until what I want comes along again.

 

[CZGary]

I just won an auction for a 100% "Ithaca" 1911a1. The price was a little over 1300. However he sent an email sincerely apologizing for accidental misrepresentation. Turns out the gun has an Ithaca slide with a Remington Rand frame. He offered to lower the price down to 1000 shipped. Is this still a decent deal? I would definitely shoot it, but would like to, if I absolutely have to be able to at least sell it at cost down the road. Because of the mistake, he also said I could back out of the auction no harm no fail. I am leaning more towards going through with it. What are you guys thoughts?

So yay or nay, what are you guys thoughts?

Would it be correct to swap out the wood grips for brown plastic ones as well?

Also, would restoring it professionally take value away?

View attachment 615732 View attachment 615733 View attachment 615734

I would say no, it is a shooter and that's all it will ever be as it mixed parts. Because of this it is not worth a restoration unless you are doing it purely for pleasure. You can get a new G Model from many places of a brand new model for %00 and under, right now you get a "SDS 1911 A1 45 Government (Tsis) for $349 from more than one dealer, and it is getting rave reviews. Again, I would politely pass.

 

[Brownsalamander]

Here's the kicker. I called and told him last night I'm gonna pass. The link provided for the new gunbroker auction is different than what I won on the auction. I'm glad I backed out. He originally listed it as a 1943 all Ithaca 1911. Now he's changed his ad. Maybe it's due to him doing better research (he said people kept messaging that he was incorrect in his posting). Or maybe it was malicious intent. Either way, I'm glad I passed. There's too many things changed this time around he posted it.

Coincidently which would you experts say is if higher quality, the Remingtons or Ithaca's?

This could have been a completely innocent misrepresentation of the gun by someone with little 1911 knowledge or a very slick scam as suggested.
Think of it this way - you have already 'won' the auction and are excited about it. Then you are informed of the 'mistake' - regardless of this I think many people would buy at the reduced price due to their 'excited' position about winning the auction. An interesting psychological ploy....
I could apply this to the 1899 Winchester I am selling. Post it as a .25-35 instead of the .30-30 it is and bids would skyrocket. Then try the same approach with the buyer.
Do NOT look for an 1899 Winchester in .25-35 on GB !

Good point

 

[Brownsalamander]

This is going to be EXTREMELY subjective. You will get all kinds of opinions on a question like that. Main thing it comes down too is do you want a collector pistol or a shooter? If you want a collector then a lot goes by how many were ever made. Some that were never made in large quantity of course bring higher price. If you want a shooter? I would just buy a nice new 1911. There is a thread here from a short time ago about this. "Would you carry a Mil Issue 1911" or something like that. The bottom line is no matter how good a shape one is in you are talking about a pistol made before many improvements were found. These things are cool to see and I kind of miss some of the ones I had back in the day they were far more common but, I would not want to spend the kind of money they go for just to have one to shoot. Sights SUCK on these and few want to add new sights to one as it hurts collectable value. So if you want one to put away as a collector, maybe shoot once in a while just for fun? It would not really matter who made it. Would want it all original. If you want a 1911 to have fun with and or carry? Just buy a modern one. Market if flooded with great ones right now to choose from.

You bring up some good points. I started that thread you're referring to, and to be honest I started this search looking for an older Ithaca (or Remington) that would fill both the areas I'm looking for, shoot-ability and something nice with historical value to pass on that I could refurbish if needed (it would be my first refurbished firearm). At the same time I've recently gotten more interested in older WW2 firearms and some of their interesting designs, this would be part of a neat collection that I would HOPE could both look nice and be used without worry. My earlier statement about reselling, in this case would be a last resort sort of thing.

At one time I owned the 1911a1 Springfield GI and was not impressed with reliability or any of the above with it. I didn't understand why the sights were the way they were, and to be perfectly honest I didn't really take the time to learn why until my interest has grown this time around for older weapons. Now I understand why, and those sorts of things are pretty interesting to me.

Realistically, from the advice I've gotten on that last thread, and what I've been reading. An all original 1911a1 would only be shot at the range and never carried. Unless it was some SHTF situation and that's the only gun I have access too.

In regards to refurbishment, the more I think on it, I would only want to do the minimal replacement of parts and finish to make is safely useable. Perhaps getting an older Ithaca or Remington AND a cheaper 1911a1 model for blasting at the range all the time is the better option.

 

[STEELE]

Run!

 

[Alexx1401]

At one time I owned the 1911a1 Springfield GI and was not impressed with reliability or any of the above with it. I didn't understand why the sights were the way they were, and to be perfectly honest I didn't really take the time to learn why until my interest has grown this time around for older weapons. Now I understand why, and those sorts of things are pretty interesting to me.

Realistically, from the advice I've gotten on that last thread, and what I've been reading. An all original 1911a1 would only be shot at the range and never carried. Unless it was some SHTF situation and that's the only gun I have access too.

In regards to refurbishment, the more I think on it, I would only want to do the minimal replacement of parts and finish to make is safely useable. Perhaps getting an older Ithaca or Remington AND a cheaper 1911a1 model for blasting at the range all the time is the better option.

Sounds like you really need 2, at least . Once you get the 1911 bug it is like so many things where one is not enough.
As for the SA milspec it would have been most likely a simple fix. TONS of 1911's are made these days showing just how popular the old design still is. A few do of course make it out the door with problems. Most of the time the problem is a simple fix if, and that's the big IF, someone either knows what they are doing or takes it to someone who does. Sadly many will just start rubbing it here with a dremel or replacing parts. Never hitting the real problem they get frustrated. The Milspecs try to stay very true to orginal, including those very poor sights. The last Mil surp 1911 I owned was made in 1918. It got it cheap in early 80's as it was in POOR shape. Almost no finish left. Re-finished it and first thing I did was have new sights put on. After a LONG carry life it made me leery when another part broke so it was retired. Someone still paid me enough for it to buy a NIB Stainless SA long ago. Even though it was no longer original. So nothing wrong with wanting one original. Most are at best going to be arsenal rebuild, still cool, but still going to cost more most likely than a NICE new one. Assuming you can afford it buy one, put it away, and buy a new one to shoot. Bottom fell out of market with it flooded during last panic and still is a buyers market. I still see NICE ones for sale for less than I paid for my newest one I bought almost 2 decades ago. Even the nicer Mil Surp ones have gotten easier to buy with the market flooded but, since they are not making any more they do keep going up in price slowly. I would not wait too long to grab one up if you want one and I would avoid getting one off the auction unless you can be 100% certain of the seller. Have fun, let us know if you buy. ALL of us love to see someones new purchase no matter how many we own. Always love to see another while thinking "maybe just one more would sneak past the Wife
Good luck and happy shopping

 

[Brownsalamander]

Sounds like you really need 2, at least . Once you get the 1911 bug it is like so many things where one is not enough.
As for the SA milspec it would have been most likely a simple fix. TONS of 1911's are made these days showing just how popular the old design still is. A few do of course make it out the door with problems. Most of the time the problem is a simple fix if, and that's the big IF, someone either knows what they are doing or takes it to someone who does. Sadly many will just start rubbing it here with a dremel or replacing parts. Never hitting the real problem they get frustrated. The Milspecs try to stay very true to orginal, including those very poor sights. The last Mil surp 1911 I owned was made in 1918. It got it cheap in early 80's as it was in POOR shape. Almost no finish left. Re-finished it and first thing I did was have new sights put on. After a LONG carry life it made me leery when another part broke so it was retired. Someone still paid me enough for it to buy a NIB Stainless SA long ago. Even though it was no longer original. So nothing wrong with wanting one original. Most are at best going to be arsenal rebuild, still cool, but still going to cost more most likely than a NICE new one. Assuming you can afford it buy one, put it away, and buy a new one to shoot. Bottom fell out of market with it flooded during last panic and still is a buyers market. I still see NICE ones for sale for less than I paid for my newest one I bought almost 2 decades ago. Even the nicer Mil Surp ones have gotten easier to buy with the market flooded but, since they are not making any more they do keep going up in price slowly. I would not wait too long to grab one up if you want one and I would avoid getting one off the auction unless you can be 100% certain of the seller. Have fun, let us know if you buy. ALL of us love to see someones new purchase no matter how many we own. Always love to see another while thinking "maybe just one more would sneak past the Wife
Good luck and happy shopping

That 1911 bug is something else haha