Gun vs Knife vs Karate in real world self defense ( especially for women )

[U8395279]

You know, the anti-gun sentiment is so very pervasive here in the Eugene area, that weapons are virtually always discouraged in the media when there is any discussion at all about self defense. This seems to be especially true when it comes to women's self-defense. There are a number of martial arts schools here, where women's self-defense training is heavily promoted. Whenever the issue of self-defense comes up here locally in the press, it seems like the unanimous recommendation for women is always for them to get martial arts training.

Well, we just had a horrible tragedy take place here this week in Eugene, where a single mother of a young child was brutally murdered by her ex-boyfriend for breaking up with him, after he had become physically abusive towards her. By all accounts, she was a very physically fit woman, who had been training in Karate for quite some time. In fact, just a few weeks ago, she showed off a photo on Facebook of 4 wooden boards that she had broken with a roundhouse karate kick. Here is that photo of her, proudly holding the broken boards.


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She also had a burglar alarm system installed in her house, to further protect her family, and summon the police quickly.

Well, her ex-boyfriend broke into her home in the middle of the night, setting off her burglar alarm system, which the Eugene Police Department then responded to. However, upon their arrival to her home, they found the mother already dead, reportedly from multiple stab wounds. Her son thankfully managed to flee the house and safely escape to a neighbor's home, when the ex-boyfriend attacked.

The police searched the area and found the ex-boyfriend nearby in some woods, dead from a suicide. A background check showed that he had a history of domestic violence against women in Arizona, and had served time in prison for felony domestic violence in that state.

So here this unfortunate woman had done everything politically correct to protect herself and her child. She had a burglar alarm system installed that automatically alerted the police that someone had broken into her home, and she had received martial arts self-defense training. Yet, all of that proved totally inadequate in protecting herself from a violent man insane with jealously, and armed only with a knife. And here her home was only 5.7 miles by vehicle from the Eugene Police Department headquarters. Yet, the police could not reach her in time to save her.

Do you think that this horrible tragedy could have been avoided, if someone had encouraged her to get a firearm for self-defense, and get trained in using it?

Could a firearm have leveled the playing field in this incident?

Here is a news report:

http://registerguard.com/rg/news/lo...istory-of-domestic-violence-exes-say.html.csp

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[P7M13]

I'm really sorry to read that. Prayers for her and her son.
Don't know if a gun would have helped her. I'm really glad he didn't use one.

 

[Kruel J]

Makes me think about why/how peoples wiring gets so crossed. And then I think about how I wish he had lived. And then I think about if he had, he and all the others like him should be sent to a remote island. And then we, as 2A supporters and legal firearm owners, get to put in every year for a tag.

 

[Stomper]

I mentioned (more or less) in another thread just this evening: when (most) girls (or women) execute martial arts on a guy (like me: strong with an exceptional pain threshold) it's mildly annoying, but mostly it just tickles.... sorry ladies, but it's mostly true.

As for her not owning a firearm, and assuming she had the prevailing "Eugene attitude", I suppose she died "morally superior".

 

[U8395279]

Makes me think about why/how peoples wiring gets so crossed. And then I think about how I wish he had lived. And then I think about if he had, he and all the others like him should be sent to a remote island. And then we, as 2A supporters and legal firearm owners, get to put in every year for a tag.

Well, there has been some controversy over the fact that he got such a short prison term in Arizona, and was on parole for only a couple of years too. He really seemed to get off with very light punishment from the criminal justice system in Arizona.

And his first domestic violence committed well before his conviction and imprisonment was against his wife. However, she only wanted to divorce him, and unfortunately did not seek any criminal charges. So he got off totally scot-free for his attacks on her, which were reportedly very brutal in nature.

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[U8395279]

I'm really sorry to read that. Prayers for her and her son.
Don't know if a gun would have helped her. I'm really glad he didn't use one.

Well, since it was reported that he had tripped the burglar alarm, I am assuming that she must have been alerted. So that is an assumption that I am making.

I suppose that if she had a silent burglar alarm installed, that then she could have been caught off-guard. But I believe those are only installed in businesses, and not in residences. I've never seen silent alarms recommended for homes.

I actually installed a number of extra sirens for my own alarm. If anyone ever attempts to break into my own home, they are really going to be quite startled when it goes off.

 

[44 Guy]

I mentioned (more or less) in another thread just this evening: when (most) girls (or women) execute martial arts on a guy (like me: strong with an exceptional pain threshold) it's mildly annoying, but mostly it just tickles.... sorry ladies, but it's mostly true.

As for her not owning a firearm, and assuming she had the prevailing "Eugene attitude", I suppose she died "morally superior".

Martial arts, like firearms, the training and type of weapon make the difference. My 5'2" daughter knocked a 180 lb man off his feet during her black belt test. 99.99% of all martial arts instructors / styles are useless! Board breaking is a gimmick that gives false sense security - its usually clear pine or cedar that can be broke by applying pressure on the edges.
This from a corrections officer with 20 years of experience teaching karate.

 

[DuneHopper]

Martial arts, like firearms, the training and type of weapon make the difference. My 5'2" daughter knocked a 180 lb man off his feet during her black belt test. 99.99% of all martial arts instructors / styles are useless! Board breaking is a gimmick that gives false sense security - its usually clear pine or cedar that can be broke by applying pressure on the edges.
This from a corrections officer with 20 years of experience teaching karate.

Having a background in Kenpo myself but one being able to kick over your head, and break bricks wont save you if you have no idea how to street fight. Funny I saw the same thing in a Tournament but she was 15 and the guy 22 and about 220lbs took him right down. The only issue is you have to be close and more often then not if a person is that close and you see no gun? Then be sure a knife is close by if they are a threat. As I get older I prefer to have to to respond with a firearm, although the element of surprise is there as well if ppl think you are older and do not know anything. Seems many disciplines of defense have a place hopefully the ones a person is versed at can be used in times its needed. This was a sad event that occurred .

 

[OLDNEWBIE]

What a lovely Woman she was, the poor kid who saw/heard his Mom being stabbed!

Nothing wrong with Martial Arts as part of an overall strategy. Don't know the surprise factor this creep used.

Like did he kick in the door and start stabbing or bang on the door threatening and shouting first?

Martial arts is best with the surprise attack of course but given even a few seconds warning the gun is the best choice.

If this poor women suspected this creep was going to try something she should have been carrying and prepared to use it. Kids in the house complicate things but when a known threat exists you have to work around it.

Wonder how the Woman beating/ stabbing coward killed himself?

 

[P7M13]

Dunehopper, do you do Ed Parker training?

I think the element of surprise was the critical factor here. As Patton said, "an imperfect plan, executed violently, is superior to a perfect plan executed flawlessly."

I can say, if you're not used to your own alarm, it's equally disorienting to the owner as well as the perp.

Sadly, a gun may have made the difference here. Many people just don't think about it.

 

[Sgt Nambu]

The fact that this poor young women had been training in sport Karate (a useless martial art IMHO) would not be lost on her crazed boyfriend! Without the element of surprise, no way she could have defeated him! A nice 12ga surprise on her part would have been the best!
I believe that to lefties, getting the great unwashed masses disarmed is going to take the lives of plenty of people! They won't lose any sleep over it. After all, we're masses! There are plenty of us!
Bless her poor soul and her little child!

 

[U8395279]

What a lovely Woman she was, the poor kid who saw/heard his Mom being stabbed!

Nothing wrong with Martial Arts as part of an overall strategy. Don't know the surprise factor this creep used.

Like did he kick in the door and start stabbing or bang on the door threatening and shouting first?

Martial arts is best with the surprise attack of course but given even a few seconds warning the gun is the best choice.

If this poor women suspected this creep was going to try something she should have been carrying and prepared to use it. Kids in the house complicate things but when a known threat exists you have to work around it.

Wonder how the Woman beating/ stabbing coward killed himself?

Police have not confirmed the manner of death for either of them. Since he was a convicted felon, he could not legally purchase or possess a firearm.

It was his two ex's, who were interviewed by the police and spoke to them about the incident, who have claimed that the mother was stabbed. So that is actually unofficial at this point in time.

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[mjbskwim]

Martial arts, like firearms, the training and type of weapon make the difference. My 5'2" daughter knocked a 180 lb man off his feet during her black belt test. 99.99% of all martial arts instructors / styles are useless! Board breaking is a gimmick that gives false sense security - its usually clear pine or cedar that can be broke by applying pressure on the edges.
This from a corrections officer with 20 years of experience teaching karate.

Having a background in Kenpo myself but one being able to kick over your head, and break bricks wont save you if you have no idea how to street fight. Funny I saw the same thing in a Tournament but she was 15 and the guy 22 and about 220lbs took him right down. The only issue is you have to be close and more often then not if a person is that close and you see no gun? Then be sure a knife is close by if they are a threat. As I get older I prefer to have to to respond with a firearm, although the element of surprise is there as well if ppl think you are older and do not know anything. Seems many disciplines of defense have a place hopefully the ones a person is versed at can be used in times its needed. This was a sad event that occurred .

Breaking bricks is great IF you are 1 of those that use your head instead of hands.Only the guy in Tacoma that used to do it was shot in Alaska with a shot gun.So it didn't do him much good.
It's attitude anyway. All the training in the world can't help if you just don't have the attitude to really hurt someone
And in her situation,if she never had any knife training she wasn't gunna do much good anyway
Which goes back to attitude or your mental toughness.
Could you (not you that have actually trained for this) decide to engage someone who came after you with a knife? Would you at least need a pipe,bar or heavy stick of some kind?
I would need a shovel or just a gun.
Some experts say a knife scares people more than a gun

 

[DuneHopper]

Dunehopper, do you do Ed Parker training?

I think the element of surprise was the critical factor here. As Patton said, "an imperfect plan, executed violently, is superior to a perfect plan executed flawlessly."

I can say, if you're not used to your own alarm, it's equally disorienting to the owner as well as the perp.

Sadly, a gun may have made the difference here. Many people just don't think about it.

PM'd you

 

[erudne]

where did the OP go?

 

[Boats]

and armed only with a knife

You underestimate a knife at your own peril, even when armed with a gun.

 

[mjbskwim]

"an imperfect plan, executed violently, is superior to a perfect plan executed flawlessly."

Well this about sums up what any attack form a POS thief or a psycho ex will be

 

[U8395279]

And in her situation,if she never had any knife training she wasn't gunna do much good anyway
Which goes back to attitude or your mental toughness.

Good point. I wonder if her classes did cover knife defense.

Could you (not you that have actually trained for this) decide to engage someone who came after you with a knife? Would you at least need a pipe,bar or heavy stick of some kind?

Well, my next door neighbor has a baseball bat for home defense. I think that something like that would be better than just having your bare hands in a knife attack.

 

[NWGlockgal]

Having been on the karate team at UofO many many years ago, I can say:

1) breaking boards is really really easy
2) karate is pretty useless against a gun or in a real fight. Practicing it against someone else
who is fighting "clean" and not out to kill you is more like a ballet than a real fight. It is good
to know some form of fighting , but as a back up to a gun. Now days, I would much rather
learn every dirty fighting trick in the book than rely on karate.

 

[Mongo1]

If you are going to have a gun for protection you have to be prepared to "stop the threat" which means willing to shoot, possibly kill to defend yourself.