Gun rights supporters are outnumbered.

[arakboss]

^^THIS. Your range is not alone, and its absolutely baffling to many...the isolationist mentality. Perhaps they think if they just shut up and keep quiet, not draw attention to themselves, their range be left alone. Or perhaps risks to licenses, permits, and/or insurance (which would be understandable)? There have been ranges that have had serious issues with people moving in nearby, and then complaining about it...cuz, despite being in operation for decades, its suddenly a 'safety' issue...and *poof* just like that, huge $$ into attorneys. They don't have to 'win,' just bankrupt you with attorney/court fees. Same thing.

Regardless, ranges thinking they can keep their head down and stay out of it may well be their own undoing. No gun owners = no members = no ranges.

BOSS

Agree 100%

 

[arakboss]

As much as I believe decentralization is the answer to protecting the rights of minorities including the minority of passionate gun owners like myself here .. I think our only safety net at this point is the opposite. The federal tyrany of the majority will have to come in and bully tyrany of the majority in the west here.

The cities bully the rest of the state here, the federal government bullies the states and the only big winner is the collective.

I'm so turned off to Democratic politics at this point I could spit whenever I hear about it.

The greatest minority is the individual, individual rights are important, but the country has to figure that out on their own.
Wouldn't it be easier if at the county level you could live like you want to? And if a law passed, you just move counties instead of states or countries.

Happiness comes with decentralized authority. States rights should supercede federal, and county rights should supercede state. Heck I'd even be for city rights superceding county.

You may get your wish to some degree. Chances are pretty good that preemption law in Oregon will be reworked to allow cities or counties to enforce additional restrictions on gun rights. Trust me when I tell you though, it won't work the other way. They will not let other cities or counties loosen restrictions on the books for the State. There is already precedent for this in Oregon, it will just be expanded.

 

[Boss]

You may get your wish to some degree. Chances are pretty good that preemption law in Oregon will be reworked to allow cities or counties to enforce additional restrictions on gun rights. Trust me when I tell you though, it won't work the other way. They will not let other cities or counties loosen restrictions on the books for the State. There is already precedent for this in Oregon, it will just be expanded.

Preemption is a MAJOR target in WA. Most folks don't have a clue what it is.

Travelling just from one city or county to another in WA could become highly problematic. And what if your local jurisdiction (ie the city council for example) bans possession of a certain type of a firearm? It'll 'suck to be you.' King County already has a written 'Action Plan' on this very thing (Kingcountycantwait.org. Step 3.)

There could be some very hard choices for folks here in the near future, because of complacency and lack of situational awareness of many.

I hope there's a lot going on 'behind the scenes' by some of the pro-2A heavy hitters, or the next few months might be a major suck-fest.

BOSS

 

[arakboss]

Preemption is a MAJOR target in WA. Most folks don't have a clue what it is.

Travelling just from one city or county to another in WA could become highly problematic. And what if your local jurisdiction (ie the city council for example) bans possession of a certain type of a firearm? It'll 'suck to be you.' King County already has a written 'Action Plan' on this very thing (Kingcountycantwait.org. Step 3.)

There could be some very hard choices for folks here in the near future, because of complacency and lack of situational awareness of many.

I hope there's a lot going on 'behind the scenes' by some of the pro-2A heavy hitters, or the next few months might be a major suck-fest.

BOSS

My guess is suck-fest. Mayor Wheeler in Portland is dying to get preemption exemptions. With a friendly super majority now in power he will likely get some love from Salem to get what he wants.

 

[BSG 75]

1. Gun owners are minorities in Oregon and Washington. 26.6% of adults in Oregon and 27.7% of adults in Washington own guns https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/co...86.full.pdf?keytype=ref&ijkey=doj6vx0laFZMsQ2 Even if those estimates are off by 10-20% that's still below 50%.

2. Even among the minorities that own guns in Oregon and Washington there is support for gun control. Countless times when debating IP43 (the proposed Oregon "assault weapon" ban initiative that fizzled out this year but is coming back in 2020) with people in the comments sections on OregonLive I have seen comments by gun owners who say "I'm a gun owner and I support an assault weapon ban" or "I own a handgun but I don't see why anyone needs an assault weapon" or "I'm a gun owner and I support 'sensible' gun control" etc. Many of them are hunters. As long as their revolvers, shotguns, and bolt-action rifles aren't threatened they support all kinds of gun control.

So gun owners are minorities in Oregon and Washington, and even among those minorities there is not unified opposition to gun control. Of course the majorities that don't own guns support gun control because it wouldn't affect them negatively (they don't own or want to own guns) and it gives them the (false) hope of less "gun violence". So that adds up to large majorities that support gun control and small minorities that oppose more gun control.

The majorities that support more gun control aren't necessarily against gun rights in general. Most of them wouldn't support a total ban on all guns. But anything less than a total ban on all guns including confiscation is seen as "sensible" and "reasonable" by a majority in Oregon and Washington. That's why we have constitutional rights, to protect the rights of minorities against the democratic power of the majority. Democracy is two wolves and one lamb voting on what to eat for dinner. People who support gun control - non-gun owners and gun owners alike - are the wolves, and we are the lamb.

 

[arakboss]

1. Gun owners are minorities in Oregon and Washington. 26.6% of adults in Oregon and 27.7% of adults in Washington own guns https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/co...86.full.pdf?keytype=ref&ijkey=doj6vx0laFZMsQ2 Even if those estimates are off by 10-20% that's still below 50%.

2. Even among the minorities that own guns in Oregon and Washington there is support for gun control. Countless times when debating IP43 (the proposed Oregon "assault weapon" ban initiative that fizzled out this year but is coming back in 2020) with people in the comments sections on OregonLive I have seen comments by gun owners who say "I'm a gun owner and I support an assault weapon ban" or "I own a handgun but I don't see why anyone needs an assault weapon" or "I'm a gun owner and I support 'sensible' gun control" etc. Many of them are hunters. As long as their revolvers, shotguns, and bolt-action rifles aren't threatened they support all kinds of gun control.

So gun owners are minorities in Oregon and Washington, and even among those minorities there is not unified opposition to gun control. Of course the majorities that don't own guns support gun control because it wouldn't affect them negatively (they don't own or want to own guns) and it gives them the (false) hope of less "gun violence". So that adds up to large majorities that support gun control and small minorities that oppose more gun control.

The majorities that support more gun control aren't necessarily against gun rights in general. Most of them wouldn't support a total ban on all guns. But anything less than a total ban on all guns including confiscation is seen as "sensible" and "reasonable" by a majority in Oregon and Washington. That's why we have constitutional rights, to protect the rights of minorities against the democratic power of the majority. Democracy is two wolves and one lamb voting on what to eat for dinner. People who support gun control - non-gun owners and gun owners alike - are the wolves, and we are the lamb.

I would not be surprised if those numbers are accurate. The vast majority of people I know don't own any firearms. So there you have it folks this could be proof we are outnumbered and it would explain why we are in for a world of hurt unless the courts save us somehow.

We need more gun sales to more people, more often. Guns under the tree and ammo in the stockings.

 

[Boss]

^^ And they have, at least in part, successfully vilified the image of gun owners, particularly the NRA. If you listen to MSM, the ONLY thing the NRA does is oppose 'common sense' gun legislation (cuz ya know, the next law will be the last one...pinky swear).

There was a time not so long ago when being a self-reliant, independent outdoorsman/woman-type- meaning you could shoot a gun, sharpen a knife, start a fire, swing a wrench or hammer, and change a tire was respected. Not so much anymore, at least in some places. Meaning they're even more of a minority. And the Fudds certainly don't help.

Too bad they don't award Olympic medals for shooting sports or something like that...oh, wait. But those again are the 'respectable, good' guns.

BOSS

 

[arakboss]

^^ And they have, at least in part, successfully vilified the image of gun owners, particularly the NRA. If you listen to MSM, the ONLY thing the NRA does is oppose 'common sense' gun legislation (cuz ya know, the next law will be the last one...pinky swear).

There was a time not so long ago when being a self-reliant, independent outdoorsman/woman-type- meaning you could shoot a gun, sharpen a knife, start a fire, swing a wrench or hammer, and change a tire was respected. Not so much anymore, at least in some places. Meaning they're even more of a minority. And the Fudds certainly don't help.

Too bad they don't award Olympic medals for shooting sports or something like that...oh, wait. But those again are the 'respectable, good' guns.

BOSS

Yep it was the morning after the CA bar shooting that Gov elect Gruesome came out and blamed the NRA for the shooting. I believe he said the NRA is morally corrupt.

 

[alv7722]

Yep it was the morning after the CA bar shooting that Gov elect Gruesome came out and blamed the NRA for the shooting. I believe he said the NRA is morally corrupt.

The NRA is a Civil Rights organization. One of the first in the nation, to teach newly freed blacks to be armed and able to defend themselves from the Democratic enforcement arm, the KKK. It needs to continually refer to itself, as such.

Gun owners need to stop referring to 'gun rights', and start using the term 'Civil Rights' !!

 

[Boss]

Yep it was the morning after the CA bar shooting that Gov elect Gruesome came out and blamed the NRA for the shooting. I believe he said the NRA is morally corrupt.

Well of course.

Boss

 

[tiggers97]

Is there anybody who doesn't believe that gun rights supporters are outnumbered in Oregon, Washington and most obviously in California?

For me? No. I don't think we are outnumbered. Rather, we are being out-marketed.

Bloomberg gave $1,000,000 to the Oregon dems thru Everytown this last year. Not counting the astro-turf drip-drip-drip funding for the 'moms' get-togethers. Eating the elephant one step at a time.

If we DID get organized, then yes, I do see a difference we could make. In my populous county of Washington, the townhalls have between 8-15 constituents on average (covers part of west-side Portland). What if just 3-5 pro-2nd amendment activists showed up to every town hall? what if a steady drip of 3-5 advocates visit their offices during 'legislative days' each month?. Or if we setup networks to help people to car-pool to things like rallies (pro/anti) or hearings?

Or to show up to gun-control presentations just to ask sideways and difficult to answer truthfully questions? Or to gun-shows to help motivate/recruit/inform the attending public? Or organize public education days at nice gun ranges so people can learn the truth first hand, and not thru the media and hollywood movies?

We may not be able to afford buses, lunches and guest speakers. But we do have motivation on our side. I just don't know how to organize and execute it.

 

[tiggers97]

By staging our own protest is a start, not these rallies. Rallies do nothing but group like minded people.

The one thing I liked about the rallies the last few years: they got the people who want to do something in one place, and motivate them.
WHat I don't like about the rallies in the last few years; they don't give direction or instruction on what to do next. Everyone leaves motivated, but with no direction on what to do next, or grow the movement.

 

[tiggers97]

This map says it all...

View attachment 517988

King county pretty much buried us.
View attachment 517989

If I had a million dollars... I would want to invest it in King county. As in promote firearms interest with indoor ranges (first 20 rounds are free!), safety classes, historical classes, etc. Something to let the public know we are not buggemen, and rediscover their heritage. That there really is a difference between law-abiding owners, and criminals.

 

[tiggers97]

1. Gun owners are minorities in Oregon and Washington. 26.6% of adults in Oregon and 27.7% of adults in Washington own guns https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/co...86.full.pdf?keytype=ref&ijkey=doj6vx0laFZMsQ2 Even if those estimates are off by 10-20% that's still below 50%..

I would caution with using those numbers, even if they are the most recent, and self-proclaimed "most accurate".
Before that came out, I dug up and complield every gun ownership survey I could find for the last couple decades. Oregon routinely was between 35-46% until this study. When I saw the 26% number, I checked a few other states. What really stood out was Hawaii. in the past it never got over 10%. But now suddenly it was up to 46%?!?! Something isn't right about the study. I don't know what it is, or their sampling was way off. But it doesn't line up. At worst, we are up around 35%.

 

[arakboss]

I would caution with using those numbers, even if they are the most recent, and self-proclaimed "most accurate".
Before that came out, I dug up and complield every gun ownership survey I could find for the last couple decades. Oregon routinely was between 35-46% until this study. When I saw the 26% number, I checked a few other states. What really stood out was Hawaii. in the past it never got over 10%. But now suddenly it was up to 46%?!?! Something isn't right about the study. I don't know what it is, or their sampling was way off. But it doesn't line up. At worst, we are up around 35%.

Even if you were right about the 35% number. Not all gun owners are strong supporters of the 2A. Quite a few gun owners don't pay much attention to our gun rights or are willing to give in to restrictions in the name of "safety" or to placate the anti-gun crowd.

 

[alv7722]

The one thing I liked about the rallies the last few years: they got the people who want to do something in one place, and motivate them.
WHat I don't like about the rallies in the last few years; they don't give direction or instruction on what to do next. Everyone leaves motivated, but with no direction on what to do next, or grow the movement.

tiggers: You are certainly apt in your statements. We have no way to motivate gun owners, nor any valid plan of action. It doesn't make any difference if you own firearms, or not. There is a concerted attack on a valid Civil Right, all should be concerned that the BOR is open to being tampered with.

What people don't understand, is we have incurred a Socialist takeover. It is no longer about the Guns. It is about the country! Guns, and Donald Trump are just, momentarily, in the way.

 

[Boss]

The one thing I liked about the rallies the last few years: they got the people who want to do something in one place, and motivate them.
WHat I don't like about the rallies in the last few years; they don't give direction or instruction on what to do next. Everyone leaves motivated, but with no direction on what to do next, or grow the movement.

It's a lack of organization combined with a good dose of conservative leanings, meaning the 'live and let live' mindset. As well as those other little pesky commitments like having to go to work and pay the bills (as opposed to being retired and/or financially supported by billionaire backed organizations).

The NRA/law abiding gun owners are going to have to work hard at overturning the negative imaging trend. The public needs to see all the good, decent law-abiding members of the community safely enjoying and using firearms. Further, they need to be inviting others to join in as well. This means less isolationist 'our range only- keep out!' and more inclusiveness...free range days with BBQ's, free training, etc.

Perhaps even as far as the national level. Pick a couple dates: First weekend in May and first weekend in August...national free range/training day/BBQ day. And make it happen, with lots of social media, etc. If at all possible, get some pro-2A celebrities involved (they're out there).

And things like OR's 2A protection efforts need to be stepped up, big time. There has got to be proactive 2A legislative efforts. The 'we stopped 41 of 43 gun control efforts, whohoo' isn't actually a victory.

$.02 worth.

BOSS

 

[arakboss]

I know there are a few out there who think that a lack of voter participation was a big contributing factor in the shellacking that the pro-gun rights supporters were subject to this past election. Oregon's SOS office sent out email announcing second highest turnout in Oregon's history for Mid-term election. I think this is more proof that we are outnumbered and voter apathy was not the main culprit in our lack of success.

"Each of Oregon's 36 counties has provided their official certified election results to us here at the Secretary of State's office. This included a manual, by-hand audit of a percentage of ballots cast to confirm they were counted accurately. In all, 1,914,923 ballots were cast. Wheeler County had the highest turnout in the state at 90.3%. Turnout among voters by age demographic was:

• 18-34: 50.7%
• 35-49: 67.5%
• 50-64: 77.1%
• 65+: 85.8%

Turnout by political party shows:

• Democrats with 81.8%
• Republicans with 81.1%
• Independents with 70.5%
• Non-Affiliated with 47.5%
• Constitution with 61.2%
• Libertarian with 64.3%
• Pacific Green with 73.4%
• Progressive with 69.2%
• Working Families with 44.9%

You may recall that last year my office took action to protect the voting rights of over 60,000 eligible Oregon voters. I'm pleased that these voters were sent ballots for this election and thousands were able to vote due to this historic expansion of voter access.

Because of the large turnout during this election, the number of valid signatures that will be required to put initiatives and referenda on the ballot for the next four years has increased by 21.3%. Our constitution says that the number of signatures required to put initiatives and referenda on the ballot is a percentage of all votes cast for governor in the previous election. There were 1,866,997 total votes cast for governor. To add a constitutional amendment will require 149,360 signatures, which is 8% of the total number of votes cast for governor. An initiative statute requires 6%, which equates to 112,020 signatures, and a referendum requires 4%, which is 74,680 signatures.

If you would like to see the detailed statistics from the General Election, go to oregonvotes.gov.

I am thankful to the Elections Division team and county election officials, who successfully administered another smooth, safe, and secure election. We will continue to work to make Oregon elections as safe and accessible as possible to all eligible voters."

 

[WoodsPlinker]

Sad

Unfortunately the issues I care about are not what the majority cares about. This has been a hard realization for me as I got older. From the stats I've seen most people are not passionate about their gun rights. I think the general category cares more about jobs, and a crappy public education system.

I would love to be wrong on that and if you or anyone else can find some stats that runs contrary to that I would love to see them.

This has lead me to say, screw democracy, its just tyrany of the majority. Why should I support a system that doesn't care about the rights of guys like me? The guys with minority opinions.

 

[alv7722]

Is there anybody who doesn't believe that gun rights supporters are outnumbered in Oregon, Washington and most obviously in California? I would like to believe otherwise but I feel like there is no turning back at this point. While I would welcome some pro-gun rights intervention from SCOTUS, I don't see it happening anytime soon.

We could blame voter participation or we could face the reality that gun rights don't seem to be important to a majority of voters in OR, WA and CA these days.

Now we face a tri-state reckoning that will almost certainly bring more infringement on our gun rights, while the majority of the population either celebrates these infringements or blissfully ignores that the infringements are even occurring.

Demographics are to blame IMHO. Through brainwashing of youngsters by the educators. Fearmongering by the politicians and anti-gun groups. Media fearmongering after every nut case commits an atrocity with a firearm. These types of influences and more are sealing the fate of our supposedly inalienable gun rights.

Doom and gloom is on the horizon for gun rights supporters. I wish I could see some sunlight breaking through but all I see at the moment is dark skies ahead.

Edit: I would like to acknowledge Andy's point that likely not all members of the above influence groups share the same anti-gun viewpoint as the rest. But I believe that it is a majority of them. And the students themselves spread the anti-gun sentiment among themselves at a prolific rate, this is evidenced after nearly every school shooting. And don't forget the many celebrities who also spread the anti-gun message in big ways. We have very few respected well known people who support gun rights. The few that do are often vilified.

You are certainly correct about being outnumbered. We are now a minority. The 2ndA is a bona fide, enumerated Civil Right. We need to take a cue from other minorities that have succeeded at gaining/ensuring their Civil Rights. We need to totally pivot to the Civil Rights issue. We can go on about the 2ndA, but the Communists will simply continue to use it for TP!

There are Federal statutes, 18 USC 241, and 18 USC 242 against the 'Conspiracy to Subvert Rights', and the 'Deprivation of Rights Under Color of Law. It could seem that entities like Bloomberg, Everytown, and others, along with any politicians that have taken money or influence from these entities could be in violation of these statutes. There are also statutes under 42 USC 1983, 1985, and 1986 that are of interest. The McDonald vs Chicago decision reiterated the 2ndA as a 'Civil Right'.

I bolded the phrase about 'who is to blame'. It does not make any difference at this point. But if we, as gun owners do not care enough to defend our important Civil Rights, why should anyone else??