Gun rights supporters are outnumbered.

[arakboss]

2018
FACT: MANY COUNTIES NOW HAVE A 2ND AMENDMENT ORDINANCES
FACT: CLOSE TO ONE MILLION VOTERS DID NOT VOTE, BEING 44% VOTED KNUTE, THAT MEANS
APPROX 400,000 VOTES WERE NOT USED, PERHAPS THIS WILL WAKE UP THE RIGHT ?
FACT: FIREARMS COMMERCE IN 2017 AND 2018 HAVE BEEN STEADY SALES.
FACT: WHERE I LIVE WE OUT NUMBER THE LEFT 3-1
FACT: THERE IS MUCH MORE GOING ON BEHIND THE SCENES MOST ARE NOT AWARE, HAVE PATIENCE.

Out numbered in a interesting choice in words, if there is a riot and 100 people with bats and knives, and 10 with
firearms, are the 10 out numbered? Nope! Just because something looks like defeat, doesn't mean it is.

I am not buying that there is some action going on behind the scenes that is going restore the majority viewpoint in OR, WA or CA that gun rights are important and should be fully restored and protected. The landslide passage of I-1639 demonstrates that the majority of people who will vote when gun rights are on the line, are anti-gun.

I told Flymph I would keep my opinion on SAPO's off this thread unless somebody else brought it up, well you brought it up, so here it goes. I am somewhat jealous that my county didn't pass a SAPO, so my opinion is somewhat biased
I am not convinced that the SAPO's are going to do much to protect Oregon residents gun rights other then to possibly save them some hassle from local LEO's up to the Sheriff's Departments and prosecution in the in the counties that passed SAPO's. Most FFL's are going to ignore SAPO's and follow state laws. Residents who violate state laws protected under SAPO's will still be violating state laws and be at risk of being caught and punished by State LEO's (State Police, ODFW, etc) and State justice dept's or other counties who don't have SAPO's. Now if the counties (LEO's and county justice depts) are going to protect their residents and FFL dealers from actions taken by State Agencies that try to go after violators that would be something but violators would still be subject to arrest and prosecution anytime they left a SAPO protected county. The way I understand it though, is the counties are not going to interfere with state agency actions in the SAPO protected counties. That would be awesome if they did.

 

[arakboss]

you can piss in the cheerios with your skepticism It wont soggy our optimism in an attempt to do SOMETHING
we are not naive, this is merly a preemptive maneuver to force a lawsuit between the second amendment people in our county and the sanctuary state people infringing on our 2nd A rights and we want this kicked to the supreme court

what was your accomplishment for the cause

I attempted to raise awareness about the potential of the super majority taking over this past election. r/orgunowners.
I think many people who were alarmed by IP43 became burned out or complacent after the courts shut it down for this election cycle. Obviously my efforts were in vain as we now have the super majority I so feared. I hope your SAPO effort does indeed plow the way to getting relief from the SCOTUS, because the relief is not going to come from voters in this State.

 

[arakboss]

Its not the educators, its the students. They can make their own decisions, and are more interconnected through social media than ever.

virtually no high schooler has a use for a gun outside recreation, and further, generally can't afford any, so they will inherently be anti-gun.

If by the students you mean peer pressure among them to maintain an anti-gun viewpoint then you are absolutely spot on about that. I should have included that in my list of anti-gun influences.

 

[DuneHopper]

I am not buying that there is some action going on behind the scenes that is going restore the majority viewpoint in OR, WA or CA that gun rights are important and should be fully restored and protected. The landslide passage of I-1639 demonstrates that the majority of people who will vote when gun rights are on the line, are anti-gun.

Truly has no bearing if you buy what I posted or not fact of the matter is there always way more then the public knows.
You don't know me, right, and 99.9% here don't know me. But in Oregon a few million people have a preserved right because of my own personal action. There is far more going on, and I know it is, because I am involve din it LOL. I know it because I know people that are helping to let the public have an early warning to event.
Not bashing you or anything, but its real easy to claim the sky is falling and its educators, firearms, owner, the left etc.
I post facts, not guesses. Your OP is speculating on ideas, and thats fine. But I move on firearms rights based on facts.
And there is no fact that that we are not still having a dog in this fight, its just means the the Dogs are tired.

 

[DuneHopper]

If by the students you mean peer pressure among them to maintain an anti-gun viewpoint then you are absolutely spot on about that. I should have included that in my list of anti-gun influences.

Again, no proof this is occurring.. just as many people are pressured into drugs and everything else.
Sorry not buying this whole over the top the sky is falling thread, sure its discouraging. But there is work to be done.
Enough with the negative waves.

 

[turbo_vanner]

If by the students you mean peer pressure among them to maintain an anti-gun viewpoint then you are absolutely spot on about that. I should have included that in my list of anti-gun influences.

nah, I'm a young millennial, pretty fresh out of southern oregon in ashland. I was never pressured into participating in any activist things, even from my friends who did. They respected my right to believe what I want to, so I gave them the same same respect.

I'm saying that the vast majority of students are anti-gun by default because they neither own or use guns, are not interested in them, and their only connection to them, is hearing about or seeing their peers being shot.

 

[Aero Denezol]

Its not the educators, its the students. They can make their own decisions, and are more interconnected through social media than ever.

I think that's mostly right. Kids nowadays are driven by pictures, feelings, social media "influencers", video games, cultural memes, and a heaping spoonful of internet porno. Kids don't listen to their teachers. If a teacher tries to clamp down on a kid for anything, even if it's for their own good, the kids revolt. When our girls went through high school (last one graduated '17) I was appalled how they were able to strong arm the school to get whatever they wanted. The teachers basically have to pass kids that have no business receiving a diploma, they have been completely neutered IMO.

 

[RVTECH]

As i have said before many times - the undeniable fact remains to the dems/antis 'gun control' is purely a conceptual undertaking for them because they have NOTHING to loose and because of this they will simply continue to respond in this manner while we, with MUCH to loose, are scrambling like rats leaving a sinking ship.
It's like this with nearly ANY liberal 'cause'. The MOST who protest AGAINST something have virtually no interest, experience or investment in what they are protesting or want to control/eliminate.
Any attempt to 'convince' them of anything is falling on deaf ears. Their words are resolute and unwavering. We are a joke to them. They are laughing at us because they know we are on the defensive. They know among ourselves, and on forums such as this, the members are posting unending, redundant and rhetorical statements about them and their misguided beliefs yet unfortunately do nothing but to bolster the members post count. We are simply telling ourselves the same things over and over we already know - I think the original was 'when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns'.
Until the dems and antis understand and experience the emotion of a potential loss such as we stand to this is NOT going to change - and nothing to lose is a very powerful weapon.

 

[arakboss]

Truly has no bearing if you buy what I posted or not fact of the matter is there always way more then the public knows.
You don't know me, right, and 99.9% here don't know me. But in Oregon a few million people have a preserved right because of my own personal action. There is far more going on, and I know it is, because I am involve din it LOL. I know it because I know people that are helping to let the public have an early warning to event.
Not bashing you or anything, but its real easy to claim the sky is falling and its educators, firearms, owner, the left etc.
I post facts, not guesses. Your OP is speculating on ideas, and thats fine. But I move on firearms rights based on facts.
And there is no fact that that we are not still having a dog in this fight, its just means the the Dogs are tired.

I appreciate your efforts behind the scenes and I sincerely hope you are successful. I can only digest what I see happening in front of the scenes and what I saw this election cycle was a mostly anti-gun super majority take over governing in my state. And this happened right after we dodged a huge bullet of IP43. That should have brought out a giant wave of pro gun rights voters and it didn't. I saw a hugely infringing I-1639 pass by 60/40 margin in WA and a super anti-gun Gov be elected in the state south of here. I hope you can appreciate why I feel we are outnumbered in the voter rolls. Whatever the solution is to restoring and protecting our gun rights, it's pretty clear it's not going to come from the election box. That is the point I am trying to make.

 

[arakboss]

As i have said before many times - the undeniable fact remains to the dems/antis 'gun control' is purely a conceptual undertaking for them because they have NOTHING to loose and because of this they will simply continue to respond in this manner while we, with MUCH to loose, are scrambling like rats leaving a sinking ship.
It's like this with nearly ANY liberal 'cause'. The MOST who protest AGAINST something have virtually no interest, experience or investment in what they are protesting or want to control/eliminate.
Any attempt to 'convince' them of anything is falling on deaf ears. Their words are resolute and unwavering. We are a joke to them. They are laughing at us because they know we are on the defensive. They know among ourselves, and on forums such as this, the members are posting unending, redundant and rhetorical statements about them and their misguided beliefs yet unfortunately do nothing but to bolster the members post count. We are simply telling ourselves the same things over and over we already know - I think the original was 'when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns'.
Until the dems and antis understand and experience the emotion of a potential loss such as we stand to this is NOT going to change - and nothing to loose is a very powerful weapon.

In your last sentence you stated "Until the dems and antis understand and experience the emotion of a potential loss such as we stand to this is NOT going to change - and nothing to loose is a very powerful weapon." How might that happen and what might it look like?

 

[arakboss]

Again, no proof this is occurring.. just as many people are pressured into drugs and everything else.
Sorry not buying this whole over the top the sky is falling thread, sure its discouraging. But there is work to be done.
Enough with the negative waves.
View attachment 517754
View attachment 517755

I am all for good news so let me know when you find some.

 

[titsonritz]

Are gun rights "supporters" really out numbered or just a lazy lot that does vote?

 

[arakboss]

I think that's mostly right. Kids nowadays are driven by pictures, feelings, social media "influencers", video games, cultural memes, and a heaping spoonful of internet porno. Kids don't listen to their teachers. If a teacher tries to clamp down on a kid for anything, even if it's for their own good, the kids revolt. When our girls went through high school (last one graduated '17) I was appalled how they were able to strong arm the school to get whatever they wanted. The teachers basically have to pass kids that have no business receiving a diploma, they have been completely neutered IMO.

Well hopefully they start strong arming the school to protect our gun rights.

 

[arakboss]

Are gun rights "supporters" really out numbered or just a lazy lot that does vote?

I was hoping they were lazy but after this most recent election I don't think that's the case. I think we are truly outnumbered. The IP43 scare and I-1639 should have sparked the lazy gun rights supporters to come out and vote. There was no gun rights supporter "wave" so the logical conclusion is we are outnumbered.

 

[RVTECH]

How might that happen and what might it look like?

Heck I don't know - maybe it never will.
The anti-gun movement crept up on us insidiously and by whatever reason or design it came to this - US to loose the most and them virtually nothing.
If you look at liberals in general do you see them displaying any particular interests, hobbies or enthusiasm about anything as passionate as us gun owners? And its not just gun ownership. Along with this most gun owners also live lifestyles with 'ancillary' interests that are typically conservative and traditional in nature.
Like I said MOST liberal causes are purely conceptual - they cost them nothing - a liberal bent on protesting something can simply wake up and join his or her protest.
We on the other hand have to 'support' our position - and please don't tell me we already have supported it with the 2A - the antis don't give a ratz azz about the 2A and would wipe their azz with it if they could.
We don't have the luxury of supporting the 2A by concept - we as gun owners have to buy the guns, the ammo, the reloading supplies, maybe range fees and everything else that goes along with it. We have to carry the burden financially of our belief in the 2A as well as try to increase our numbers - and right now I am not so sure they are in our favor.

 

[DuneHopper]

Heck I don't know - maybe it never will.
The anti-gun movement crept up on us insidiously and by whatever reason or design it came to this - US to loose the most and them virtually nothing.
If you look at liberals in general do you see them displaying any particular interests, hobbies or enthusiasm about anything as passionate as us gun owners? And its not just gun ownership. Along with this most gun owners also live lifestyles with 'ancillary' interests that are typically conservative and traditional in nature.
Like I said MOST liberal causes are purely conceptual - they cost them nothing - a liberal bent on protesting something can simply wake up and join his or her protest.
We on the other hand have to 'support' our position - and please don't tell me we already have supported it with the 2A - the antis don't give a ratz azz about the 2A and would wipe their azz with it if they could.
We don't have the luxury of supporting the 2A by concept - we as gun owners have to buy the guns, the ammo, the reloading supplies, maybe range fees and everything else that goes along with it. We have to carry the burden financially of our belief in the 2A as well as try to increase our numbers - and right now I am not so sure they are in our favor.

Yep, so we value the fight more then their flavor of the month.
I personally do not care about the antis as much as I care about wasting energy explaining it over and over.
We call them antis for a reason, time to move on and adjust ourselves and stop blaming them, if our soldiers
stood on the shores of Normandy, and would not proceed, and decided to blame the Germans for their lack of advance.
Well we all know how that would work out. I really do not like threads like this, as it just turns people to the wrong avenue
to fight from.

 

[arakboss]

Yep, so we value the fight more then their flavor of the month.
I personally do not care about the antis as much as I care about wasting energy explaining it over and over.
We call them antis for a reason, time to move on and adjust ourselves and stop blaming them, if our soldiers
stood on the shores of Normandy, and would not proceed, and decided to blame the Germans for their lack of advance.
Well we all know how that would work out. I really do not like threads like this, as it just turns people to the wrong avenue
to fight from.

I realize you have your own behind the scenes effort to attend too, where are you proposing that gun rights supporters (not in the behind the scenes club) direct their efforts now?

 

[DuneHopper]

I realize you have your own behind the scenes effort to attend too, where are you proposing that gun rights supporters (not in the behind the scenes club) direct their efforts now?

By staging our own protest is a start, not these rallies. Rallies do nothing but group like minded people.
What has like minded groups done for rights done? Nothing. A Protest with non-open carry is a start.
CC of course. But we are the victims here, and if we are the minority as you mention, then act like it and demand the voices to be heard. Pick weekends so more can attend have protest. If OFF would have even had a protest it would have made the news. Rallies do not. That the first line to do hit the streets, we all know the snowflakes are and thats where they get the press time.
NO, open carry at all, that only would give them cannon fodder. It would be a armed protest and we do not want that in the headlines.

Then once those are accepted, start protesting cities and counties who are making it hard on us, why the NRA has never established this cause of action is beyond me, they see the results the antis get and yet no one wants to do it.
Even wear masks like they do, and is done to protect our selves from violence.
We are not playing the same game they are is the problem, we let them set the rules and lost the coin toss, now we must beat them at their own game.

 

[Boss]

It's a complex issue...but to boil it down, we lost because many conservatives/repubs couldn't be bothered to spend the five minutes to fill out their ballot. In a nutshell, that's it. The 'whys' are the same as usual. The reality is some folks absolutely won't 'wake up/clue in' until its on the news that they've already lost. Too late at that point.

Celebrities...yes, you can expect those like Julianne Moore (you know, from Boogie Nights and the supposedly gun toting expert shooter Clarice Starling in Hannibal) to tell gun owners how horrible they are. But (according to the internet, so take it with a grain of salt) there are supposed to be some 'Big Name' pro-gun celebs...Selleck and Nugent of course, but also Bruce Willis, Brad Pitt, Jeremy Renner, and others. Where the heck are they? How's about some 'celebrity' appearances at some big matches or something. Might be nice...

Teachers? That's case-by-case, just like any other profession. But system starts 'teaching' them young, like this little nugget that might be in the kids section of your local library:

Gun Control by Steven Otfinoski | Scholastic

Regardless, the opposition is greater than ever, and we've got to get things moving in the right direction. Hopefully, that possibility remains. And that is what I expect my membership dues and donations to be going to from the people that do this for a living.

BOSS

 

[Mr Smith]

This map says it all...



King county pretty much buried us.