Quantcast
  1. Sign up now and join over 35,000 northwest gun owners. It's quick, easy, and 100% free!

Gresham Cops murder Iraq Veteran for holding gun on his own property!

Discussion in 'Education & Training' started by DeathRattle, Feb 7, 2011.

  1. DeathRattle

    DeathRattle Portland Metro Area Member

    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    0
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2011
  2. Mason3379

    Mason3379 Oregon City Active Member

    Messages:
    741
    Likes Received:
    116
    Of course the family is gonna say he did nothing wrong and the cops will say just the opposite! No one really will ever know how this things turn out and why except the people involved. Never the less people sit back and bad mouth the cops for doing their job.
     
  3. HollisOR

    HollisOR Rural OR, South of Dallas Active Member

    Messages:
    327
    Likes Received:
    45
    Tactical, yes that is often the case. Something like this is a very emotional situation. I think I will wait for the investigation to conclude before expressing opinion. It is a terrible event for all involved. Rest In Peace, condolences to the family and support to the officers involved.
     
  4. DeathRattle

    DeathRattle Portland Metro Area Member

    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well, no matter how you feel about the subject, this is becoming a major apidemic from all across the nation. Are there any solutions, other than ignoring it and dismissing it as a simple, isolated "tragedy", when in fact it's more like a public health crisis? What can we do other than tell ourselves that the veteran just wanted to die?

    Cops and Vets are supposed to be on the same side, right? So what can we do to mitigate this tidalwave of dead vets?

    Nikolas Lookabill
    Thomas Higgenbotham
    Anthony McDowell

    These guys we all killed minutes from my home over the last few months, and many more are dying throughout the nation.

    Does anyone have any ideas?
     
  5. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,838
    Likes Received:
    1,186
    The guy could have come out without the rifle that was just stupid, and my not even knowing the particulars of what happened some of the blame must be placed on the victim.
     
  6. DeathRattle

    DeathRattle Portland Metro Area Member

    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    0

    Yeah, well you got any ideas on how to fix it?

    I propose an age standard for LEO's. Maybe, like 25 or so, before a person can be a police officer, just like there are higher age limits for people who want to be senator, president, etc. Why? Because of the overwhelming potential for abuse of power by young, excited young men with pounding hearts and immature forebrains. On a battlefield, this unthinking, testosterone filled young enforcer would be right at home, but our cities are not battlefields. This is our community, and we owe it to ourselves to require a high standard for any public official, but especially our police officers. Also, a stronger training emphasis on conflict resolution, and far less force protection training. Also, a the basic training model for new police recruits must be de-militarized completely, and replaced with a educational platform.

    I would also propose that veterans and their loved ones do not look to the police in times of crisis until the above outlined has been achieved, and I instead would like to exhaggerate a more community-based veteran demographic rather than the compartmentalization and existentialism atmosphere we have today.
     
  7. WhyteCheddar

    WhyteCheddar East of Moscow by the Willamette Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,415
    Likes Received:
    413
    There is assistance available for veterans in crisis (of course there can always be more, and better). But how do you make sure that they avail themselves of it? Forcing them to it can be as bad as keeping them from it in some cases.
    And if young men (under age 25) can go to war for our country they are certainly capable to serve in other capacities as well IMHO. Many LEOs are also veterans themselves.
    As with most things, I am sure we can do better training of our police force, but displaying a gun to police after your own spouse calls you in as armed and suicidal is going to really make for a tough situation no matter how well an officer is trained.
    I grieve for everyone involved, the deceased, his family and the officers as well.
     
  8. supergenius

    supergenius 206 Active Member

    Messages:
    592
    Likes Received:
    34
    answering the door with a gunin your hand when you KNOW the fuzzes are out there isnt a really bright decision or life move.
     
  9. Buddhalux

    Buddhalux Hillsboro, Oregon Active Member

    Messages:
    737
    Likes Received:
    100
    You're wrong here. Young men can serve in the military because they're given orders from NCO's who are older than they are. Police Officers now a days are usually alone on their patrols so they have to make their own decisions. Another thing, combat arms MOS' make it instinctive to carry your weapons every where you go including sleeping, eating, showering. It's very habit forming from our OSUT thru to our units. Securing one's weapon is the first and foremost thought. Everything else falls in below that.
     
  10. motoman98

    motoman98 Gresham, OR Active Member

    Messages:
    676
    Likes Received:
    80
    He did NOT answer the door; he had ventured outside with a deer rifle above his head(for whatever reason-just dumb), conversing with his wife who was in the front yard. He was not aware the Police were on the street. The wind was blowing about 30mph in east county and it was dark. The black uniformed police had arrived and parked down the street, at least two officers approached his driveway from the east and yelled orders at him, it is unclear if he could hear, see them, or understand their presence, and he was shot within seconds. The rifle was not being pointed at anyone and although it irrelevent, I doubt it was loaded. Alot of what has been said is simply conjecture, especially from the media.
    I believe the SWAT team mentality to be a major factor of this incident, and their training is suspect.
    THis military approach to citizens/homeowners with firearms needs to be modified a bit and this could be avoided.
    Two teenage kids now without a Dad is the biggest trajedy.
     
  11. clearconscience

    clearconscience Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,602
    Likes Received:
    7,178
    If you didn't know the police were outside why would he have walked out with his rifle above his head?

    If he know they were in fact out there, why would he walk out with a rifle?

    What caused the police to be called there in the first place?

    Why did he have a rifle going outside?

    Why did the police fire only after supposedly confronting him for "seconds"?

    Did he make any other move?

    Too many unanswered questions.

    Just like any other police shooting, people doing things without thinking it may be stupid, and cops shooting maybe to fast? If I was confronted with somone with a gun, I wouldn't wait for them to make the first move or I would be the dead guy.

    Even someone with a gun in a non-aggresive manner can turn it deadily as we've all seen in videos in a matter of seconds. Or fraction of.
     
  12. clearconscience

    clearconscience Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,602
    Likes Received:
    7,178
    I just read the related article.

    I don't believe the police did anything wrong. He was suicidal, had a gun. Was probably looking for suicide by cop.

    For sure a tragedy, for the man that lost his life, the officers involved, and mostly the family.

    We know at least he doesn't have to suffer any longer. R.I.P
     
  13. clearconscience

    clearconscience Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,602
    Likes Received:
    7,178
    I think I went to high school with Officer Galbreath. If he is anything like he was in high school, he is a great and honest Officer.
     
  14. iusmc2002

    iusmc2002 Colville, WA Active Member

    Messages:
    577
    Likes Received:
    207
    If he was really suicidal, suicide by cop is the best way to do it. If we commit suicide, our families are out the 500K SGLI. If we get murdered (NOT SAYING THATS WHAT HAPPENED!) then the family gets the money and can go through life thinking that it wasn't really that he wanted to die, but that his life was taken from him some other way.

    Sympathy to his wife, kids and the officers involved
     
  15. One-Eyed Ross

    One-Eyed Ross Winlock, WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,367
    Likes Received:
    752
    Well, since the family says they didn't know the police were there, I doubt that it was suicide by cop. Also, the title of the thread is wrong, in that the vet couldn't have surrendered if he didn't know the police were there. I've read two conflicting articles, and will avoid making a decision until I have read the coroner's report, depending on what you guys in Oregon do when things like this happen.
     
  16. motoman98

    motoman98 Gresham, OR Active Member

    Messages:
    676
    Likes Received:
    80
    More facts: He was "zoned" out, not reasoning well: doubtful if suicidal. She called out to the Police looking for help to get him to the Veterans Hosp. He did NOT know she had called 911 or understand the Police were on the street. One of the Police on the night of the incident speculated it was PTSD, probably a good call.
    There is limited knowledge of the facts and misinformation seems rampant.
     
  17. Buddhalux

    Buddhalux Hillsboro, Oregon Active Member

    Messages:
    737
    Likes Received:
    100
    The thing that concerns me the most is that we can be killed for just going outside our house on our own property with a firearm in hand. That does not sit well with me at all.
     
  18. clearconscience

    clearconscience Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,602
    Likes Received:
    7,178
    Buddhalux, those articles give no info what so ever. So lets wait until all the facts spill out.
    If that is the case, I fully agree.
     
  19. motoman98

    motoman98 Gresham, OR Active Member

    Messages:
    676
    Likes Received:
    80
    You had better have that gun in a case if you are in the front yard, or anyone could call 911 on you. The way it is in 2011
     
  20. Buddhalux

    Buddhalux Hillsboro, Oregon Active Member

    Messages:
    737
    Likes Received:
    100
    Well if someone starts shooting at me in my own front yard I will be returning fire. I have the right to defend myself period.

    Clear, I didn't read the articles since it was stated that there were conflicting reports.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.