Gresham Cops murder Iraq Veteran for holding gun on his own property!

[DeathRattle]

'But according to McDowell’s family, “He walked out of the house holding a rifle up over his head with both hands. Within seconds he was shot and killed."'

"McDowell’s wife, sister-in-law, and 13-year-old daughter witnessed the shooting, according to his family."


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[Mason3379]

Of course the family is gonna say he did nothing wrong and the cops will say just the opposite! No one really will ever know how this things turn out and why except the people involved. Never the less people sit back and bad mouth the cops for doing their job.

 

[HollisOR]

Tactical, yes that is often the case. Something like this is a very emotional situation. I think I will wait for the investigation to conclude before expressing opinion. It is a terrible event for all involved. Rest In Peace, condolences to the family and support to the officers involved.

 

[DeathRattle]

Well, no matter how you feel about the subject, this is becoming a major apidemic from all across the nation. Are there any solutions, other than ignoring it and dismissing it as a simple, isolated "tragedy", when in fact it's more like a public health crisis? What can we do other than tell ourselves that the veteran just wanted to die?

Cops and Vets are supposed to be on the same side, right? So what can we do to mitigate this tidalwave of dead vets?

Nikolas Lookabill
Thomas Higgenbotham
Anthony McDowell

These guys we all killed minutes from my home over the last few months, and many more are dying throughout the nation.

Does anyone have any ideas?

 

[Trlsmn]

The guy could have come out without the rifle that was just stupid, and my not even knowing the particulars of what happened some of the blame must be placed on the victim.

 

[DeathRattle]

The guy could have come out without the rifle that was just stupid, and my not even knowing the particulars of what happened some of the blame must be placed on the victim.

Yeah, well you got any ideas on how to fix it?

I propose an age standard for LEO's. Maybe, like 25 or so, before a person can be a police officer, just like there are higher age limits for people who want to be senator, president, etc. Why? Because of the overwhelming potential for abuse of power by young, excited young men with pounding hearts and immature forebrains. On a battlefield, this unthinking, testosterone filled young enforcer would be right at home, but our cities are not battlefields. This is our community, and we owe it to ourselves to require a high standard for any public official, but especially our police officers. Also, a stronger training emphasis on conflict resolution, and far less force protection training. Also, a the basic training model for new police recruits must be de-militarized completely, and replaced with a educational platform.

I would also propose that veterans and their loved ones do not look to the police in times of crisis until the above outlined has been achieved, and I instead would like to exhaggerate a more community-based veteran demographic rather than the compartmentalization and existentialism atmosphere we have today.

 

[WhyteCheddar]

There is assistance available for veterans in crisis (of course there can always be more, and better). But how do you make sure that they avail themselves of it? Forcing them to it can be as bad as keeping them from it in some cases.
And if young men (under age 25) can go to war for our country they are certainly capable to serve in other capacities as well IMHO. Many LEOs are also veterans themselves.
As with most things, I am sure we can do better training of our police force, but displaying a gun to police after your own spouse calls you in as armed and suicidal is going to really make for a tough situation no matter how well an officer is trained.
I grieve for everyone involved, the deceased, his family and the officers as well.

 

[supergenius]

answering the door with a gunin your hand when you KNOW the fuzzes are out there isnt a really bright decision or life move.

 

[Buddhalux]

There is assistance available for veterans in crisis (of course there can always be more, and better). But how do you make sure that they avail themselves of it? Forcing them to it can be as bad as keeping them from it in some cases.
And if young men (under age 25) can go to war for our country they are certainly capable to serve in other capacities as well IMHO. Many LEOs are also veterans themselves.
As with most things, I am sure we can do better training of our police force, but displaying a gun to police after your own spouse calls you in as armed and suicidal is going to really make for a tough situation no matter how well an officer is trained.
I grieve for everyone involved, the deceased, his family and the officers as well.

You're wrong here. Young men can serve in the military because they're given orders from NCO's who are older than they are. Police Officers now a days are usually alone on their patrols so they have to make their own decisions. Another thing, combat arms MOS' make it instinctive to carry your weapons every where you go including sleeping, eating, showering. It's very habit forming from our OSUT thru to our units. Securing one's weapon is the first and foremost thought. Everything else falls in below that.

 

[motoman98]

He did NOT answer the door; he had ventured outside with a deer rifle above his head(for whatever reason-just dumb), conversing with his wife who was in the front yard. He was not aware the Police were on the street. The wind was blowing about 30mph in east county and it was dark. The black uniformed police had arrived and parked down the street, at least two officers approached his driveway from the east and yelled orders at him, it is unclear if he could hear, see them, or understand their presence, and he was shot within seconds. The rifle was not being pointed at anyone and although it irrelevent, I doubt it was loaded. Alot of what has been said is simply conjecture, especially from the media.
I believe the SWAT team mentality to be a major factor of this incident, and their training is suspect.
THis military approach to citizens/homeowners with firearms needs to be modified a bit and this could be avoided.
Two teenage kids now without a Dad is the biggest trajedy.

 

[clearconscience]

If you didn't know the police were outside why would he have walked out with his rifle above his head?

If he know they were in fact out there, why would he walk out with a rifle?

What caused the police to be called there in the first place?

Why did he have a rifle going outside?

Why did the police fire only after supposedly confronting him for "seconds"?

Did he make any other move?

Too many unanswered questions.

Just like any other police shooting, people doing things without thinking it may be stupid, and cops shooting maybe to fast? If I was confronted with somone with a gun, I wouldn't wait for them to make the first move or I would be the dead guy.

Even someone with a gun in a non-aggresive manner can turn it deadily as we've all seen in videos in a matter of seconds. Or fraction of.

 

[clearconscience]

I just read the related article.

I don't believe the police did anything wrong. He was suicidal, had a gun. Was probably looking for suicide by cop.

For sure a tragedy, for the man that lost his life, the officers involved, and mostly the family.

We know at least he doesn't have to suffer any longer. R.I.P

 

[clearconscience]

I think I went to high school with Officer Galbreath. If he is anything like he was in high school, he is a great and honest Officer.

 

[iusmc2002]

If he was really suicidal, suicide by cop is the best way to do it. If we commit suicide, our families are out the 500K SGLI. If we get murdered (NOT SAYING THATS WHAT HAPPENED!) then the family gets the money and can go through life thinking that it wasn't really that he wanted to die, but that his life was taken from him some other way.

Sympathy to his wife, kids and the officers involved

 

[One-Eyed Ross]

Well, since the family says they didn't know the police were there, I doubt that it was suicide by cop. Also, the title of the thread is wrong, in that the vet couldn't have surrendered if he didn't know the police were there. I've read two conflicting articles, and will avoid making a decision until I have read the coroner's report, depending on what you guys in Oregon do when things like this happen.

 

[motoman98]

More facts: He was "zoned" out, not reasoning well: doubtful if suicidal. She called out to the Police looking for help to get him to the Veterans Hosp. He did NOT know she had called 911 or understand the Police were on the street. One of the Police on the night of the incident speculated it was PTSD, probably a good call.
There is limited knowledge of the facts and misinformation seems rampant.

 

[Buddhalux]

The thing that concerns me the most is that we can be killed for just going outside our house on our own property with a firearm in hand. That does not sit well with me at all.

 

[clearconscience]

Buddhalux, those articles give no info what so ever. So lets wait until all the facts spill out.
If that is the case, I fully agree.

 

[motoman98]

You had better have that gun in a case if you are in the front yard, or anyone could call 911 on you. The way it is in 2011

 

[Buddhalux]

Well if someone starts shooting at me in my own front yard I will be returning fire. I have the right to defend myself period.

Clear, I didn't read the articles since it was stated that there were conflicting reports.