George Floyd

[Quezun]

Not to mention that if the suspect had been a white guy, it probably wouldn't have made national news, unless the white guy was mentally challenged and peeing in public.

Anyone remember this, I never heard of it, I wonder why.

 

[Nagahide]

Some of you are pretty gross. Justify it all you want, you don't deserve to be murdered in the street. Especially in such a drawn out and horrible fashion. This wasn't an accidental shooting. This was a 7 minute decision to kill a man. Keep your BS politics out of it.

 

[Wombat of Doom]

I have had enough containment training to know that this was violating all kinds of principles in, not killing people. I have been part of hundreds of takedowns as a psych nurse dealing with people who are out of control, high, or having a mental health crisis. The latter are by far easier to deal with. However, one of the first things in every training I have ever had has been positional asphyxiation. What a lot here I doubt realize, is that in many of these positions, you will die if left in them. Not having access to your arms to offset body weight is huge, and necks are a no go. Just too much can go wrong with it. I do hope the cops involved are charged with murder.

What the guy was doing was irrelevant once he is on the ground in cuffs. What the cops did once they subdued Him was murder.

 

[trevi]

Anyone remember this, I never heard of it, I wonder why.

Wow. That is terrible. But, not nearly as tragic as the Floyd case. Unacceptable either way.

 

[trevi]

I have had enough containment training to know that this was violating all kinds of principles in, not killing people. I have been part of hundreds of takedowns as a psych nurse dealing with people who are out of control, high, or having a mental health crisis. The latter are by far easier to deal with. However, one of the first things in every training I have ever had has been positional asphyxiation. What a lot here I doubt realize, is that in many of these positions, you will die if left in them. Not having access to your arms to offset body weight is huge, and necks are a no go. Just too much can go wrong with it. I do hope the cops involved are charged with murder.

What the guy was doing was irrelevant once he is on the ground in cuffs. What the cops did once they subdued Him was murder.

Thank you!!! Positional asphyxiation, a term i had forgotten, is a real killer. You just reminded me about the trainings in healthcare that when a patient is restrained, they are to be checked on visually every 15 minutes, correct?

 

[Wombat of Doom]

Minimum. The floors i worked on, in restraints someone was watching your breathing continuously. There was a gap pretty much long enough to check 4 boxes every 15 minutes.

 

[slimmer13]

I have had enough containment training to know that this was violating all kinds of principles in, not killing people. I have been part of hundreds of takedowns as a psych nurse dealing with people who are out of control, high, or having a mental health crisis. The latter are by far easier to deal with. However, one of the first things in every training I have ever had has been positional asphyxiation. What a lot here I doubt realize, is that in many of these positions, you will die if left in them. Not having access to your arms to offset body weight is huge, and necks are a no go. Just too much can go wrong with it. I do hope the cops involved are charged with murder.

What the guy was doing was irrelevant once he is on the ground in cuffs. What the cops did once they subdued Him was murder.

Murder is a stretch. It could have been lack of training. Maybe he thought Loyd was passed out. Maybe the agitated crowd distracted him. Maybe he was thinking about his old lady banging the neighbor. Who knows. I really doubt they said, "you know what, let's see how long it takes to kill someone today by kneeling on their neck".

I do think incompetence and negligence were factors. In my mind, it's textbook manslaughter. But I'm just a guy on the internet and it matters not, what I think.

 

[Cosimel]

I'm getting to that age where the unbelievable events I've witnessed unfold live are really stacking up; the fall of the Berlin wall, the Challenger explosion, even live coverage as the second plane slammed into the towers. Always comes a sense that things are about to change forever. Daryl Gates' 1992 Los Angeles was a powder keg, and the riots that followed the acquittal of those officers gave me that same sense as I remained glued to the TV coverage the whole time I feared it would touch off a chain reaction as it was all too common a story all through out America, When the riots ended and the talking began I was as hopeful as most this would be the beginning of real change. I'm getting that same sense of potential wide spread civil unrest that'll make the LA riots look like a 'Game of Thrones' final session watch party gone bad. I have no idea how this will pan out, but given what we've all seen, the already hyperactive ideological and cultural fracturing of our national identity, and all the crap that comes with a historic pandemic; I truly fear if these officers 'get away' with this, there will be blood.

 

[HaveGun]

I am not sure that it is. I have travelled far and wide, and currently, I am in Colombia - I have never faced such nasty attitudes from P to R elsewhere, only in USA. I have dual citizenship and permanent residence to other countries, but USA is my home for now - I just do not always feel welcomed. Now, why is that?

Was it verbatim?

Mass shootings are not the same or in the same category as police brutality. The only time I can think of police brutality in other countries is when the police are actually fighting a mob (Hong Kong, France) but where is it popular to use unnecessary force on a person of colour, shoot into someones' home, shoot at them in their vehicle, or in the back as they run away, than USA? In some of those scenarios the persons were un armed or simply mentioned they had a permit for said weapon.

I find it hard to believe that as a dual citizen of Colombia, you are not aware of the massive police corruption and brutality that occurred during the heyday of the Medellin cartel.

Holding up Colombian police officers as models of civility and moral superiority over American police officers seems an odd choice...

Colombia: Police Abuse Becomes Common During COVID-19 Outbreak

The rise in violence is a consequence militarization of public spaces due to restrictive measures to prevent the virus.

www.telesurenglish.net

What I saw inside the Cali drug cartel | CNN

Jorge Salcedo was a member of the Cali drug cartel. He says massive bribes to judges, military and police keep the drug lords in business.

www.cnn.com

Colombia`s police force, corrupt and incompetent? - Colombia Politics

Tom Wilkinson is increasingly frustrated with Colombia´s apparently incompetent and corrupt police force. After years of an improving security situation, is President Santos allowing law and order to deteriorate? I first arrived in Colombia in October 2011 and found it to be a safe, friendly and...

www.colombia-politics.com

 

[blinded]

Murder is a stretch. It could have been lack of training. Maybe he thought Loyd was passed out. Maybe the agitated crowd distracted him. Maybe he was thinking about his old lady banging the neighbor. Who knows. I really doubt they said, "you know what, let's see how long it takes to kill someone today by kneeling on their neck".

I do think incompetence and negligence were factors. In my mind, it's textbook manslaughter. But I'm just a guy on the internet and it matters not, what I think.

We don't know what was going through the guy's mind, but we do know the agitated crowd was pleading with him specifically to get off his neck.
And if he had thought Floyd had passed out, why stay on his neck?

As far as training, I think we're safe to assume he had at least a minimal amount. I have had exactly 0 training on that kind of thing but I think I could confidently say once I thought the guy was limp (and two other guys were holding him down as well) I should probably get up off of him. I don't think any training is needed to know that.

And the problem is, the incompetence and negligence levels would seem to be so high, it's hard not to wonder if there was something else going on there. How incompetent and negligent can a person be? It seems at some point it goes beyond that.

And since we don't know what he was thinking, we could just as easily conjecture that he was enjoying it, getting off on it. (I'm not claiming that). Or he may have just not cared if he killed him or not. Would that be murder or manslaughter? Not particularly trying to kill but being fine if the person is killed, and continuing to unnecessarily cause the death. It seems pretty much just as bad. It seems plain that he did not need to be doing what he was doing any longer, should have known it could cause harm, and it's hard too see how even the most extreme levels incompetence and negligence can explain it.

 

[No_Regerts]

Think about what those taxes ACTUALLY pay for. If you have raised children or currently are and feel it is your duty to put them through college, well in the US, college is outrageous in cost and no better than many other developed nations. Medical and law, and all public universities is free, even graduate school. Private university is not free but VERY affordable. Healthcare is paid for by taxes and is quite great. I have not met many poor Germans in Germany. Different countries, different governing ideas.

Its not free. You pay 42% or whatever for 47 working years at $60k, thats almost 1.2 million dollars in taxes. You pay half of that in the US. So you can afford to pay up to $560k on college to BREAK EVEN.
There is no free lunch in this world.

 

[slimmer13]

We don't know what was going through the guy's mind, but we do know the agitated crowd was pleading with him specifically to get off his neck.
And if he had thought Floyd had passed out, why stay on his neck?

As far as training, I think we're safe to assume he had at least a minimal amount. I have had exactly 0 training on that kind of thing but I think I could confidently say once I thought the guy was limp (and two other guys were holding him down as well) I should probably get up off of him. I don't think any training is needed to know that.

And the problem is, the incompetence and negligence levels would seem to be so high, it's hard not to wonder if there was something else going on there. How incompetent and negligent can a person be? It seems at some point it goes beyond that.

And since we don't know what he was thinking, we could just as easily conjecture that he was enjoying it, getting off on it. (I'm not claiming that). Or he may have just not cared if he killed him or not. Would that be murder or manslaughter? Not particularly trying to kill but being fine if the person is killed, and continuing to unnecessarily cause the death. It seems pretty much just as bad. It seems plain that he did not need to be doing what he was doing any longer, should have known it could cause harm, and it's hard too see how even the most extreme levels incompetence and negligence can explain it.

It seems easier to explain extreme incompetence and negligence than trying to explain how he would knowingly kill Loyd, on camera, having to know the absolute hell his life would become, financial ruin, safety concerns for him and his family, probably prison etc.

 

[No_Regerts]

I strongly disagree.

Why?

In the initial video where he is taken from the car in cuffs to the sidewalk, he was breathing and talking normally. Crushing someones windpipe while they are one drugs does not produce a relatively calm demeanor, such a person would be wigging out. Granted, it is unknown at this moment if and what drugs he may have been on.

Claustrophobia is a real thing, and he may have had experience with being detained in a patrol vehicle. Persons with this disorder while restrained will often suffer a heightened response because they are 'captured' in a 'space' they feel too small or large in. Yes, you can have claustrophobia in a space you feel too small in, not very common.

None of what you said matters in court. Objectively reasonable actions given the totality of the circumstances during said action.

When I walk up to someone and contact them in the lawful execution of my duties, how I respond is based solely on what I know at that moment. I don't know they're a diabetic who is acting irrationally because they're hypoglycemic. I don't care that their girlfriend left them, their dog died, or they weren't breast fed as a child. Nothing matters besides what is going on in that moment and how any reasonable LEO would react. Hindsight isn't admissible in court.

 

[Lasers]

Me entering this thread...

 

[4Freedom]

Murder is a stretch. It could have been lack of training. Maybe he thought Loyd was passed out. Maybe the agitated crowd distracted him. Maybe he was thinking about his old lady banging the neighbor. Who knows. I really doubt they said, "you know what, let's see how long it takes to kill someone today by kneeling on their neck".

I do think incompetence and negligence were factors. In my mind, it's textbook manslaughter. But I'm just a guy on the internet and it matters not, what I think.

Don't agree. If any of us peasants crushed a guys wind pipe who was handcuffed and begging for his life (crying for mama) we would be sent to prison the rest of our lives for this.. On the other hand, when a police officer does it, some how he is justified, improperly trained (seriously a 20 year veteran?) and gets a free pass and the benefit of the doubt. The creepy look on the face of this cop and lack of any speech or facial expression makes me think he is a f'ing homicidal maniac. Considering the move was technical and executed with accuracy, as one of bystanders was trained in Jiu-Jitsu and making comments about it as well, it hardly seems like he didn't know what the hell he was doing. His buddy sitting there casually watching and laughing almost made it look like it was just a day of entertainment for them.

Why is it the Minneapolis police department have such a bad track record for killing innocent people? First Philando Castile, then Justine Damond and now this crap.

I actually am worried than many police are enjoying their newfound powers the Pandemic has given some of them a more gung-ho attitude than usual. You can be arrested literally for hanging out on a sidewalk or going to church now. I have a video of a cop forcefully restraining a 72 year old Vietnam Veteran (leaving deep bruises on his wrists from the cuffs) and shoving him into police car in California for not refusing to leave a Waffle restaurant that wasn't suppose to be open. Look what happened in NYC when a cop acting like a thug beat a man unconscious for not observing social distancing?

Video: NYC cop beats man during violent arrest over social-distancing | Daily Mail Online

Bystander films NYPD police officer beating a man during a violent arrest over social-distancing in Manhattan's East Village.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I know I could be hated for saying this, but I dont think cops deserve any special treatment compared to us peasants. THey swore an oath to uphold the Law and Constitution and are suppose to be public servants, not thugs with a badge. I have encountered too many strong headed cops with a chip on their shoulder. I know there are many good cops who want to do the best they can do to help society and put their lives on the line. I feel sorry for the good police officers who now have their reputations and diligence tarnished by these thugs who use their badge as a permit to act out on their insanity and sociopathic tendencies and justify them.

Four cops, one guy in handcuffs who was not resisting arrest to any serious extent? He was already freakin handcuffed! Obviously, his department reviewed the body camera and instantly fired them, but didn't bother arresting them since police have much superior citizenry status than the rest of us and got to walk free after doing this. They probably saw there was absolutely no justification for what they did from the body cameras which is why they were immediately fired.

What scares me? Is with the new normal we are experience from this Pandemic and the heightened power that government authorities have and diminished civil rights we may see many more people merely killed on the street by an empowered and militarized police force that has superior rights and status than the lowly peasantry.

I think, unless there is something that we don't know here, these cops should be thrown into a Federal prison and get to live side by side with the other inmates. No need for a death penalty. No special status either. I am also for shooting looters on sight too.. I am for justice and it pisses people off.

 

[blinded]

It seems easier to explain extreme incompetence and negligence than trying to explain how he would knowingly kill Loyd, on camera, having to know the absolute hell his life would become, financial ruin, safety concerns for him and his family, probably prison etc.

Yeah, that's a fair point.

But really neither explanation makes much sense in light of the fact that he knew he was being recorded. Whatever his motive was he apparently felt he could somehow come off looking justified.

There's no point in assuming the very worst about the guy, we just don't know. I feel like if he's charged it will be for manslaughter. I do hope we end up getting a good understanding of what was going on inside him, but more than likely we'll never know what was truly in his heart and mind. Every thing he says will be about defense at this point. And obviously dude isn't gonna own up to something truly dark going on inside himself.

Either way, he needs to be held VERY accountable. There's no good justification for what happened

 

[Wombat of Doom]

Murder is a stretch. It could have been lack of training. Maybe he thought Loyd was passed out. Maybe the agitated crowd distracted him. Maybe he was thinking about his old lady banging the neighbor. Who knows. I really doubt they said, "you know what, let's see how long it takes to kill someone today by kneeling on their neck".

I do think incompetence and negligence were factors. In my mind, it's textbook manslaughter. But I'm just a guy on the internet and it matters not, what I think.

I think holding your knee on a neck for that long qualified. In a high adrenaline takedown 7 minutes is an eternity. If you thought Lloyd passed out and continued, that would be more reason to consider it murder.

And if you did this it would be regarded as murder. Police should be held to a higher standard not lower.

 

[EHJ]

Portland.
Completely unaffected and unconcerned.
Minnesota is 1800 miles away...
National public in unison has already condemned this cop... but oh no...
Portland needs to have their tantrum in public themselves. Not enough attention lately I guess.

Portland police respond to George Floyd’s in-custody death in Minneapolis, prepare for local protests

Portland police Acting Chief Chris Davis said the bureau will try to remain as uninvolved as possible with policing protests over the death of George Floyd, but said they will prepare for the protests as they normally would.

www.oregonlive.com

 

[sobo]

Portland.

Portland police respond to George Floyd’s in-custody death in Minneapolis, prepare for local protests

Portland police Acting Chief Chris Davis said the bureau will try to remain as uninvolved as possible with policing protests over the death of George Floyd, but said they will prepare for the protests as they normally would.

www.oregonlive.com

 

[Alexx1401]

Thank you!!! Positional asphyxiation, a term i had forgotten, is a real killer. You just reminded me about the trainings in healthcare that when a patient is restrained, they are to be checked on visually every 15 minutes, correct?

I can't speak to all but, when we restrain someone they are not checked on, they have to have someone watching them at all times until they are no longer restrained.