Other State Florida City Commissioner shoots and kills shoplifter trying to exit store with hatchet

[U8395279]

Thief 0
World +1

The thief was 50 years old, and was homeless and destitute.

He is survived by a sister, who says that she is very upset.

 

[U8395279]

The implication being that the law won't apply to him? If, in fact, he's in the wrong?

I think that the implication was that there was a possibility of bias in the police dept.

A prosecutor will make the final call on this, though. It is really not up to the police dept, whether he is put on trial or not.

 

[MrRob96]

When I moved to WA I had to look up the laws on defense of property because I knew in Texas I'd be ok shooting in that situation.

I'm not looking to shoot anyone stealing my lawnmower, but if a thief is trying to run off with some firearms, yeah maybe.

Edged weapon like a hatchet? Probably not.

 

[etrain16]

I think that the implication was that there was a possibility of bias in the police dept.

A prosecutor will make the final call on this, though. It is really not up to the police dept, whether he is put on trial or not.

Definitely possible, though I think with any video evidence, especially with audio and perhaps from other points of view and maybe witness statements, that friendship may only carry him so far. It will be interesting to see where this goes, as it will lie with the DA ultimately to make the call, maybe a grand jury.

 

[MrRob96]

He is survived by a sister, who says that she is very upset.

Of course she is. Gotta build that civil suit. The shooter is a city employee so maybe she can get some of that sweet government money.

 

[RVTECH]

The day after the shooting, Dunn's attorney told FOX13 that Dunn was in fear for his life at the time he fired at Lopez.

In fear of his life and he had a gun in one hand and grabbing the retreating suspect with the other? Sorry not buying his alleged 'fear'.

 

[U8395279]

If you don't want to get shot, don't steal stuff... problem solved.

The thief had been arrested over a dozen times in the past, for petty thefts just like this one. No one knows how many times he may have gotten away with stealing things.

The fellow was 50 years old, and was homeless and destitute. He had also been arrested for possession of cocaine in the past. He may have needed money for a drug habit.

This guy below was arrested in Portland for possession of cocaine:



.

 

[Doublesunder]

It's been said a zillion times.
"Play stupid games win stupid prizes "

I guess I'm just not as snowflakey with my morals as others.

 

[Tarawa86]

Even if you don't believe in God (I do), Exodus 22:2,3 provides wisdom regarding situations like this:

2c "If a thief is caught in the act of breaking into a house and is struck and killed in the process, the person who killed the thief is not guilty of murder. 3 But if it happens in daylight, the one who killed the thief is guilty of murder."

If someone is breaking in, who knows what their intentions may be. If they are trying to fleeing with property their intentions are clear, why cover your hands in blood for something so trivial? I get that many of us in this nation are getting sick of the rising tide of lawlessness, myself included. Maybe there is more to the story than it first appears.

 

[Ura-Ki]

In what little video they are showing, it looks like there was a bit of a scuffle before our shooter spun the thief around. I wonder what was said between the two just before the shooter spun the dead guy? Could he have said "Get your dick beaters off of me or I will kill you?" Or somesuch? An implied threat of death or serious harm may constitute the use of deadly force in that state! Don't know the specifics of the laws addressing this situation, so I can't say! I will say that the video dosnt show enough detail, speciffically what happend just before the shoot nor do we have audio, so I'm not going say it was justified or Not!
Remember, innocent untill proven guilty, and we don't have enough proof here, likely never will, so this is all academic. Making Blanket statements of guilt does NOTHING positive for this discussion

 

[RVTECH]

The shooter is a city employee so maybe she can get some of that sweet government money.

Most likely an unpaid, elected position.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I don't know of any state where a person can use deadly force to protect property.

DOE gunmen can shoot someone in the back if they are attempting nuclear materials theft. but that's probably different

 

[Medic!]

I wouldn't want to rely on 12 strangers If I were this guy.
I think he done stepped in it.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Guy got tired a guitar hero and wanted to play hatchet hero.. lolz

 

[MrRob96]

there was a bit of a scuffle before our shooter spun the thief around.

Not sure about that. Would need another angle. From the OP's video it looked like the shooter was stiff arming the thief, trying to keep him in the store under gun point. Thief doesn't comply and keeps trying to exit. Once exited, thief gets yanked around by shooter and two shots put directly in chest the moment the chest opens up. No apparent fight from thief on the camera at any point. No audio tho, so can only go by that one point of view.

What also might be interesting to note is that everyone's entire claim to SD hinges on the thief having an edged weapon. I had to rewatch the video 4 times to see the hatchet the thief was holding. At the time of shooting, it's literally behind the glass door held by the wrong end to be used as an effective hatchet.

Capability, opportunity, intent.

This is certainly a tragedy. Every cowboy with a gun makes gun owners look crazy. That's the entire reason why this stuff is getting on the news.

 

[nwslopoke]

People need to practice phrases like, that's a **** shame. I hope the police catch him. Watch out!

Beyond that, unless someone is in immediate danger, mind your own business. Everyone wins in the long run. Idiots do what idiots do. This commissioner's life is ruined over what an idiot did. A man is dead for stealing $2 worth of metal. In America life is supposed to be worth more.

 

[bbbass]

Texas Penal Code - PENAL § 9.42 | FindLaw

A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:

(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41 ; and

(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:

(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or

(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and

(3) he reasonably believes that:

(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or

(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

 

[bbbass]

It was a crime in progress. The perp chose and was armed with a deadly weapon. When confronted, he was up close and personal and facing the officer (< 21 feet is the edged-weapon dead zone). One slashed jugular and the officer would have been dead in 10 seconds. Very glad I never had to make such a call.

The legal point is whether or not the officer feared for his life or the lives of others.

It's hard to say what he planned to do with a stolen hatchet, but as a juror I certainly would not think that he had "armed" himself from looking at that video.

21' rule is bogus. Please stop using "officer" in regard to this story... makes me wonder if you understand what you saw.

My takeaway is: Everybody sees what they want to see.

Doesn't murder require premeditation, though? I'm sure that the commissioner did not wake up that morning, with the intention of killing someone that day.

Premeditation = 1st degree murder. Murder in the heat of the moment = 2nd degree murder. There is also Negligent Homicide, which I do not think applies here. There is also Aggravated Murder, and murder with special circumstances. Both involve heinous acts. IMO the best he could hope for outside of Florida is Manslaughter.

 

[U8395279]

Premeditation = 1st degree murder. Murder in the heat of the moment = 2nd degree murder. There is also Negligent Homicide, which I do not think applies here. There is also Aggravated Murder, and murder with special circumstances. Both involve heinous acts. IMO the best he could hope for outside of Florida is Manslaughter.

Well, looking at Florida law specifically, I found this: "In order to be convicted of second degree murder in Florida it must be shown that the accused acted with a depraved mind and without regard for human life."

Can we call this commissioner's thoughts depraved? I am doubtful of that.

I think that involuntary manslaughter may apply the most. This is what I found on it, from a Florida attorney: " In order to be convicted of involuntary manslaughter in Florida, an offender only has to have acted with culpable negligence (aka a disregard for human life while engaging in wanton or reckless behavior), that resulted in someone else's death."

 

[po18guy]

Q: What good would commenting do at this point?
A: None at all.