National Feds insist Second Amendment doesn't protect machine guns

[bradsteen]

I downloaded a Metallica album last week, but I'm a good 75 or 80 miles from the coast

Yarrrr!

 

[CamoDeafie]

I downloaded a Metallica album last week, but I'm a good 75 or 80 miles from the coast

I think the guy meant last documented act of sea/naval piracy

But ... Should the US devolve into a Balkan type of civil war, a fragmentation of the States and all that, expect actual naval piracy to ratchet up a significant portion.. especially from the likes of Cartels, and foreign nationals seeking to take advantage of the chaos. I'm thinking port invasions, particularly the Gulf area... Possibly also the Coast ports on both sides.

Of course it'll be a moot point if it devolves into a State vs Fed war but I'm thinking more of State vs State with Feds being dissolved.

Edit, actually that might be the only way that the 2A would become unrestricted, if Federal govt were to go away and it gets left up to States.. in which.. there are many States that would legalize all the NFA things.. on the other hand, there are also many States that would love to go full Australia/UK/European countries on banning all guns from civilians

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

I think the guy meant last documented act of sea/naval piracy

 

[The Heretic]

Sure are, and vessels traveling into those waters should be armed, IMO. But that threat is virtually non-existent in US waters.

Edit to add - as far as I can tell from some quick online research the last documented act of piracy in US waters was in 1862.

The Caribbean still has pirates - they board yachts, kill the crew/passengers then sell the yacht.

Caribbean Safety and Security Net - Reporting Crimes against Yachts in the Caribbean

The Caribbean Safety and Security Net (CSSN) is dedicated to collecting and disseminating accurate information about crimes against yachts in the Caribbean. By compiling both current and historical data on reported incidents, we empower cruisers to make well-informed decisions about how and...

safetyandsecuritynet.org

 

[CamoDeafie]

The Caribbean still has pirates - they board yachts, kill the crew/passengers then sell the yacht.

Caribbean Safety and Security Net - Reporting Crimes against Yachts in the Caribbean

The Caribbean Safety and Security Net (CSSN) is dedicated to collecting and disseminating accurate information about crimes against yachts in the Caribbean. By compiling both current and historical data on reported incidents, we empower cruisers to make well-informed decisions about how and...

safetyandsecuritynet.org

I know you're a former Coastie, but did these crimes happen within US Territorial waters (defined as 12 miles from the coast), as opposed to the Exclusive Economic Zones (defined as 200 miles from the coast)?

U.S. Office of Coast Survey

 

[CamoDeafie]

Imagine if SCOTUS took the position of Miller that "arms suitable for militia (military) use" are protected by 2A in Heller, and also arms in common use for lawful purposes, that they judged the 1934 NFA as unconstitutional on its face, as well as DC's ban on handguns... Maybe we wouldn't be dealing with all the little things?

Wishful thinking, I know.


But it would have been "the final word" on arms bans.

Because the military currently issue full auto guns, short barreled weapons, grenade launchers, handguns, and so on. Along with all the accoutrements and arms accessories.

 

[Will_White]

The problem is not even the pro gun community can define what level of military arms a standard citizen should be allowed.

Any man portable non-NBC weapon should be legal without a background check, Vehicles, Mounted Guns, and Artillery should be acquirable by private citizens with a NICs check, and military equipment should be sold to the highest private bidder unless necessary for replacement parts that are no longer being produced.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Any man portable non-NBC weapon should be legal without a background check, Vehicles, Mounted Guns, and Artillery should be acquirable by private citizens with a NICs check, and military equipment should be sold to the highest private bidder unless necessary for replacement parts that are no longer being produced.

I'd be ok with requiring NICS style BG checks on politicians before they run for office. Otherwise, meh.

Vehicles, treat em same as normal cars/trucks unless over a certain GVWR, then whatever they match to DOT. Funny story, M151 Mutt not technically "street legal" according to DOT/govt but military used them. Many light vehicles probably the same way unless based on specific components/chassis or have civilian equivalents (H1 Hummers for example). Edit, how it should be.

Tanks and tracked armored vehicles, most (including historical models) are not legal to drive on US roads due to weight and tracks damaging roads. Usually need transporter vehicles, often requiring CDL type of training. Edit, currently how it is

Aircraft, same thing, need private pilots licenses with time on type, and so on, and that's for unarmed/deactivated warbirds. Edit, currently how it is.

Crew served weapons and missile systems.... Money comes into play, most are very expensive anyhow, unless small, low power, obsolete or foreign.

Ideally, just a quick BG check (edit, nothing like 4473, just "any criminal history? Yes, no? If yes, any felonies, or outstanding warrants?") , then take home same day, no transfer fees or whatnot, even for munitions.



Storage of munitions and warheads/ammunition? Now that's going to be the big challenge.

 

[shoengine]

And philosophically I am on the flip side, I would trust private citizens to be far more responsible with NBC materials than the government, even with corporations. There are far too many accidents coming from neglect, and incompetence of government agencies and corporations.

People can't be trusted to drive without looking down at their phones all the time. There is no way people are responsible enough to own things like that. Ridiculous assertion.

 

[CamoDeafie]

People can't be trusted to drive without looking down at their phones all the time. There is no way people are responsible enough to own things like that. Ridiculous assertion.

Government can't be trusted to protect the Constitution, much less protect the public property or military inventory. What's ridiculous about it?

 

[shoengine]

Government can't be trusted to protect the Constitution, much less protect the public property or military inventory. What's ridiculous about it?

Sliced bread! Uh... jolly ranchers?

Did I connect enough random stuff to my argument yet?

 

[CamoDeafie]

Sliced bread! Uh... jolly ranchers?

Did I connect enough random stuff to my argument yet?

Pentagon can't account for 63% of nearly $4 trillion in assets

DOD regularly buys parts and equipment it doesn’t need because it can’t keep track of the parts and equipment it already owns

responsiblestatecraft.org

United States military nuclear incident terminology - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

CSB Votes to Approve Final Report on Three Accidents at DuPont Belle, West Virginia Plant following Public Comment Period - Investigations - News | CSB

www.csb.gov

Chemical Weapon Munitions Dumped at Sea: An Interactive Map

View the Google map with sites by confirmation status, the year dumping began, the amount dumped and by depth.

nonproliferation.org

High-risk human-caused pathogen exposure events from 1975-2016 - PMC

Biological agents and infectious pathogens have the potential to cause very significant harm, as the natural occurrence of disease and pandemics makes clear. As a way to better understand the risk of Global Catastrophic Biological Risks due to human ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

@shoengine , you asserted that "people can't be trusted to drive", thereby connecting driving skills to weapon ownership responsibility.

I assert that the US government have had a long history of doing the stupidest thing possible when it came to mishaps with chemical weapons, nuclear weapons, and biologic agents

 

[Koda]

Sometimes more than 1 opposing thing can be true at the same time. I dont trust either the public at large or the govt to not make mistakes. Therein lies the problem with unlimited arms.
There will be laws.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Sometimes more than 1 opposing thing can be true at the same time. I dont trust either the public at large or the govt to not make mistakes. Therein lies the problem with unlimited arms.
There will be laws.

The 2A is the law its supposed to limit the government on restricting arms to citizens. Sure would be nice if it also restricted what arms the government may control though I see an article that says the US has officially gotten rid of its chemical weapons stockpiles by 2023...

 

[Koda]

The 2A is the law its supposed to limit the government on restricting arms to citizens. Sure would be nice if it also restricted what arms the government may control though I see an article that says the US has officially gotten rid of its chemical weapons stockpiles by 2023...

Yes, but we deviated from that law very early in our history and its only been more laws ever since. I doubt starting over is going to happen. Laws are a funny thing, they are only unconstitutional if 5 judges agree.
Id be fine with legalizing private militias to handle the bigger arms, want to play with stinger missiles, build NBC weapons, or be a real fighter pilot, join a private militia. They would have the structure and resources to make sure safety and rules are followed rather than some depressed psycho neighbor wanting to check out.

 

[The Heretic]

Imagine if SCOTUS took the position of Miller that "arms suitable for militia (military) use" are protected by 2A in Heller, and also arms in common use for lawful purposes, that they judged the 1934 NFA as unconstitutional on its face, as well as DC's ban on handguns... Maybe we wouldn't be dealing with all the little things?

Wishful thinking, I know.


But it would have been "the final word" on arms bans.

Because the military currently issue full auto guns, short barreled weapons, grenade launchers, handguns, and so on. Along with all the accoutrements and arms accessories.

The Second Amendment's purpose is to protect the USA against enemies, foreign and domestic. Also, to preclude the need for a "standing army". So yeah, the whole idea is for civilian militia to have what the government has.

Or as others have said, the Second Amendment is not about duck hunting (or deer hunting).

 

[1911Fanatic]

Since the Glock Switch is apparently in widespread use even if it's illegal for unlicensed people to possess (1986 MG ban); the SCOTUS ought to revisit the premise of "dangerous and unusual" weapons not being protected by 2A. I can see this specific route being taken eventually; that the Hughes Amendment itself is unconstitutional, but that the 1934 NFA and 1968 GCA are still "good laws/constitutional", thereby opening the MG registry and keeping the NFA intact with only Congress having the right to decide whether to keep or toss these laws.

What's the difference between a Glock Switch and an FRT and a binary trigger? And if they're gonna do the same things why is one legal and one not?

 

[CamoDeafie]

What's the difference between a Glock Switch and an FRT and a binary trigger? And if they're gonna do the same things why is one legal and one not?

Glock switch makes Glock full auto. Not like FRT or binary. It's more akin to autosear

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

What's the difference between a Glock Switch and an FRT and a binary trigger? And if they're gonna do the same things why is one legal and one not?

Not the same, because words mean things:

a full-auto weapon, or machine gun, as any weapon that shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. This means the weapon will fire continuously as long as the trigger is held down and ammunition is available.

The Glock switch does not require the trigger to be released and pressed again to fire more than one shot while the FRT / binary trigger / Akins accelerator and similar devices, do require the trigger be reset and pressed for each shot to be fired. Nothing in the NFA states that there can be no mechanical assistance to move the trigger to the reset position

 

[Will_White]

we deviated from that law very early in our history

Aside from laws restricting what arms could be carried by enslaved and free non-whites, and laws requiring militia members (EG All military age males) to have equivalent arms to the military, what gun control laws were there very early in our history? Local restrictions on carry?

I'm genuinely curious because, I'll admit, gun control before the 20th century isn't something I've really looked into much.