Fake silver coins/bars showing up in the NW

[EZLivin]

EZLivin, I don't think you are correct... In cases that I am aware of, people wanted foreign currency - US Dollars and German Marks were the favorite, as well the British Pounds...

I'm not sure we disagree that much. Perhaps where we differ is that I do see certain foreign currencies being desired and utilized in the event we have hyperinflation here. "Necessity" would bring other currencies into play in my opinion. I'm betting on it actually, which is why I hold a fair bit of Canadian dollars. I'm not a $US fan (have not been for several years). Other than short counter-trend rallies I think the $US is going much lower.

 

[shooter3brovo]

There is a coin shop in puyallup wash that has been pushing them off as real .... what a joke . they are also all over ebay..... A dude in cannon beach also is on craigslist selling them as real .. i buy a lot of silver coin and bars and keep running into them

 

[Grunwald]

There is a coin shop in puyallup wash that has been pushing them off as real .... what a joke . they are also all over ebay..... A dude in cannon beach also is on craigslist selling them as real .. i buy a lot of silver coin and bars and keep running into them

Maybe the DA should look into the coin shop. I am pretty sure that they are breaking at least one law, most likely more.
At the very least the are committing fraud,.

 

[OreGunSun]

I know that people buy are buying "American Eagles" to avoid getting counterfeits.

I see a couple of things in play - first great portion of American is more familiar with "junk silver as being real silver" - I doubt that anyone would go to the expense to mint 90% Junk silver - so it is probably the safest and most recognized of US Silver. I think that when you see Silver spot break over $100 - that is when you will see more counterfeits on the market. When mints start offering 1/2 oz for sale you are headed to a that direction.

I can't see see paying a premium for 1 oz silver rounds I would rather have a generic 1 oz round from the 70's or the 80's. Without the premium.

Criminal tend to counterfeit what is popular over what is not - ever see someone counterfeit Wal-mart brand Tennis shoes? But Nike's get counterfeited.

I think that a lot of coins labeled as "Replica or Reproductions" that some are trying to pass them off as real.

Yet I think that time when you will see mass produced "Chinese replica's that are 50% Ag and 50% Lead/Antimony or a 74/26 ratio ( which would have the right denseness.) Yet I think that day might come when Silver break's $100.

I think that they will be done well enough to fool most. I read that in the 80's that 100 oz bar were drilled out and filled with with a 74%/24%. Yet they did not counterfeit a generic 100oz bar they did Premium J&M bar's. Thus I think that the Target of professional counterfeiters - will come out of China in the form of American Eagles.

Just my .02 BTW the Fake bar's passed the "ring" test and the weight, density and size test's.

 

[Grunwald]

I agree with OreGunSun. People who are buying American Eagles in order to avoid counterfeit coins are not doing themselves any favor. An Eagle can be counterfeited almost as easily as any bullion round. It just requires a more detailed dies made and it's off to the races. There are already fake gold coins coming from China. Silver is not as high of a margin, but it is up to where it is profitable.

OreGunSun mentioned Lead/Antimony as a alloy with the correct density to pass for silver. I wonder if it would pass the sound test.
Silver coins make a very distinct sound when dropped on a hard surface.

 

[Wheeler44]

I agree with OreGunSun. People who are buying American Eagles in order to avoid counterfeit coins are not doing themselves any favor. An Eagle can be counterfeited almost as easily as any bullion round. It just requires a more detailed dies made and it's off to the races. There are already fake gold coins coming from China. Silver is not as high of a margin, but it is up to where it is profitable.

OreGunSun mentioned Lead/Antimony as a alloy with the correct density to pass for silver. I wonder if it would pass the sound test.
Silver coins make a very distinct sound when dropped on a hard surface.

Yes silver has a very distinctive "ring" to it...I can't imagine lead alloys having such a ring..

 

[OreGunSun]

Yes silver has a very distinctive "ring" to it...I can't imagine lead alloys having such a ring..

I do tend to agree with you about the distinctive ring - yet even a guy I would call an expert - owns a High Volume shop in North Cal. Here is a video that he (Jason Hormel) did - because a bar did not pass the "ring" test. YouTube - Silver Ring Test at the JH MINT

Your best bet - is if the price of something is too good to be true it usually is. - So if you buy off Craigslist or e-bay and a price is to good to be true from a new seller. Then avoid.

Bank tellers are trained by handling the real thing all the time. ( not with studying counterfeits.) I normally care a one ounce bullion round in my pocket all the time - I handle several times a day.

Once silver breaks a price point - it becomes -worthwhile to counterfeit it. Yet I doubt that you will see Pre -1965 currency counterfeited ( with the exception of Morgan and Peace dollars - at this point )

Any counterfeits will come out of Asia. Yet if your dealing with a local coin shop or bullion dealer - you should have to worry. E-bay/ Craigslist - buyer beware.

Examples of counterfeits

YouTube - Counterfeit Silver Coin Detection (SKB COINS)

YouTube - Fake silver 1oz coins (a gork at some)

Just my .02cent -

This is why I like the 1980-1990's generic bullion over ASE and older Peace and Morgan dollars.

 

[Partsproduction]

You're still using the Federal Reserve Notes, and yet how many stories have we heard over the years of forged USD????

Interesting, I took some scrap copper to a metals recycler in Hillsboro a few days ago, got a pile of $20's for two barrels of copper turnings. When I took the pile to a coin dealer close by to convert the fiat paper money into silver rounds the owner was counting the 20's out, and said "Counterfeit, counterfeit". I said "WHAT!" to which he replied that there are lots of counterfeits in circulation, but that the banks take them so he didn't care. (!!!!!!!) I'd like to know more about this. Converting counterfeit $20 bills for counterfeit silver rounds. Hmmmm.

 

[Grunwald]

There was a story a few years back about North Korea counterfeiting US dollars.
I'd find it hard to believe that the coin dealer would accept fake $20 bills. By law, whomever is in possession of the counterfeit bills when they get "discovered" is the one that takes the loss.
If he goes to the bank with a bunch of them, and the bank all of a sudden decides to care, he's out of luck.

 

[Partsproduction]

I'd find it hard to believe that the coin dealer would accept fake $20 bills. By law, whomever is in possession of the counterfeit bills when they get "discovered" is the one that takes the loss.
If he goes to the bank with a bunch of them, and the bank all of a sudden decides to care, he's out of luck.

I was under the same delusion, I could scarcely believe he would take them so cavalierly. He said the bank accept them so he does too. Now, as to whether or not they were truly counterfeits I have no way of knowing. He said the quality of the fakes was so high that it is very hard to tell. I asked him about the Mylar strip in them and he held it up to look, but didn't say anything (The money was his by then, so I didn't grab it to look). He said it was malicious governments doing the counterfeiting. They were all $20 bills.
I think the government of the United States is so far gone that such niceties are lost in the confusion, it's all fake money anyway! It's phoney, not backed by anything but confidence, and the U.S. government is the biggest swindler on earth. A con game, on us, which is why I'm trading it in for something real. (I hope they are real! I have scales and calipers and soon an acid test kit.)

 

[Thebastidge]

Several countries's governments are known or suspected of counterfeiting dollars. North Korea, Iraq before the war, there are others.

OTOH, lots of people talk crap. If the guy in the pawnshop really thought they were fake, he wouldn't take them. Unless he's a complete idiot. It's a felony to knowingly pass counterfeit currency, even if you didn't make it yourself.

Some people talk all kinds of crap, and it's hard to know why. I guess they just want to seem smarter and more in-the-know than the rest of us.

 

[Partsproduction]

If the guy in the pawnshop really thought they were fake, he wouldn't take them.

Not a pawn shop, a rare coins dealer, a man certified to assess the value and provenance of rare coins and other currencies. I doubt that there are many people in Oregon more capable of determining whether or not they were real. On the other hand, he was, as I said, cavalier about it, as if it's a secret most people don't know about, that there are large percentages of counterfeit bills in circulation and only those not in on it make a big deal of it. I was shocked and still am, because it means that all the Secret Service hoopla is boloney, all a show. Then again, our own government is doing it friends, don't you know that, all of you? That is how they steal from us, one of many ways.

 

[Partsproduction]

BTW, I was watching a documentary about Rome, and the way they stole from their people was to produce silver coins with a much higher standard alloy of silver on the outside and in the center a core of a much lower value. Here is a website that talks at length about how evil "leaders" in Rome cheated their citizens. Money and banking in Ancient Rome - Austrian Economics Wiki

Of course, when America went off the precious metals standard and made money simply a unit of confidence based on the honor of our government the floodgates were opened wide to steal with both hands, and bring lots of friends too to help steal! Steal from China by printing worthless bills, so we pay back our loans in worthless paper. And of course the shotgun method automatically also steals from Americans who worked and saved all their lives too.

Nothing really changes, everything's been done before. Our only choice is whether or not we will choose to be like the people who do these things or instead truly try to live honorable honest lives.

 

[CEF1959]

So PP, you bought silver with counterfeit currency, after being told that the currency was counterfeit, knowing that your counterparty intended to pass the counterfeits off into the banking system?

Really? Are you BS-ing or confessing to a felony? I think you might have some explaining to do.

 

[Partsproduction]

CEF1959 as usual you lack understanding. He said he thought some of the many $20 bills were fake, how that translates to my culpability is a bit strained since I do not/did not know they were/are fake. I mentioned this because I was so surprised that an expert in currency was so light heartedly mentioning it. Neither BSing nor confessing, and you are once again meeting my expectations of you based on things you have said in the past. Go read Karl Marx, you may understand that.

 

[Trlsmn]

So PP, you bought silver with counterfeit currency, after being told that the currency was counterfeit, knowing that your counterparty intended to pass the counterfeits off into the banking system?

Really? Are you BS-ing or confessing to a felony? I think you might have some explaining to do.

So how do you feel about passing off counterfeit firearms?

 

[Partsproduction]

I don't know anything about counterfeit firearms, so I guess you were aiming at CEF1959. I've bought a few silver rounds, and after reading this checked them all with a gram scale, they are all easily within a tenth.

From the responses to what I said about the counterfeit bills I gather that no one believes that what the coin store guy said is true. I guess I'd be happiest believing that too, but the fact is that our own government might as well be pumping out counterfeit bills, since there is nothing backing it and worse, in my opinion, there is no real intention of honoring the face values on them. So, what's worse? A few counterfeit bills passing daily as good bills or a government that devalues our currency right before our eyes?

And somehow in all of it someone finds a way to imply that I'm dishonest or dishonorable.

 

[Trlsmn]

I don't know anything about counterfeit firearms, so I guess you were aiming at CEF1959.

Indeed it is.

And somehow in all of it someone finds a way to imply that I'm dishonest or dishonorable.

He's just Trolling you, it's what he does, pay no attention.