Factory duplicate Gold Dot loads?

[daved20319]

Before anyone asks, no, I don't intend to use these for carry or HD/SD, but with the recent enforcement of the 50 rd. boxes being LE only, the price has gone back to stupid, too stupid for testing/practicing. But on the off chance that I DO decide to use my CZ 97 .45 ACP as a bedside gun, I'd like to load it with a viable defensive round, but first I want to make sure it will digest them with no hick-ups, before buying factory ammo.

So I picked up a box of 230 gr. Gold Dot bullets at the LGS today. I have 4 different powders on hand, Bullseye, W231, VV N320, and CFE Pistol. The standard (not +P) loading has an advertised velocity of 830 FPS, has anyone worked up a load with one of the above powders that gets close to that? Yes, I have multiple manuals as well as on-line load data, but if someone has already done this, why reinvent the wheel ? Thanks.

Dave

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[ageingstudent]

Before anyone asks, no, I don't intend to use these for carry or HD/SD, but with the recent enforcement of the 50 rd. boxes being LE only, the price has gone back to stupid, too stupid for testing/practicing. But on the off chance that I DO decide to use my CZ 97 .45 ACP as a bedside gun, I'd like to load it with a viable defensive round, but first I want to make sure it will digest them with no hick-ups, before buying factory ammo.

So I picked up a box of 230 gr. Gold Dot bullets at the LGS today. I have 4 different powders on hand, Bullseye, W231, VV N320, and CFE Pistol. The standard (not +P) loading has an advertised velocity of 830 FPS, has anyone worked up a load with one of the above powders that gets close to that? Yes, I have multiple manuals as well as on-line load data, but if someone has already done this, why reinvent the wheel ? Thanks.

Dave

I haven't done that in .45ACP but I would think the CFE pistol would get you closer to a factory 230gr hollow point sd type load. The other three are a little fast for mimicing that type of load I think. I'd start with the CFE. I have done something similar with .40 cal and 180gr xtp and a 4" barrel and be-86 worked pretty well. Accurate #7 was a little too vicious on the felt recoil.

 

[Cerberus Group]

First off, there's no legal standing about using hand loads for HD/SD...too much internet crap.

You'll need to find out what those GD's are rated for velocity. A lot of HP's have a suggested velocity loading on their packaging. Loaded too slow, and they don't open up thus act like a FMJ. Too fast and they act like a parachute, thus won't get penetration.

Is there any info on the packaging to give a suggested velocity load?

 

[Medic!]

I'm not sure I much believe the BS about not being able to get 50 round boxes?

There everywhere.

.Speer Gold Dot LE Duty 45 ACP AUTO Ammo 185 Gr JHP

 

[daved20319]

I haven't done that in .45ACP but I would think the CFE pistol would get you closer to a factory 230gr hollow point sd type load. The other three are a little fast for mimicing that type of load I think. I'd start with the CFE. I have done something similar with .40 cal and 180gr xtp and a 4" barrel and be-86 worked pretty well. Accurate #7 was a little too vicious on the felt recoil.

This is exactly what I ended up doing, although I only loaded 5 of each instead of my usual 10. At the rate things are going, with all the test rounds I've got loaded up at the moment, that next range trip is going to be a long one !

CG, I realize there's no legal standing, but as soon as you mention hand loaded SD ammo, everyone starts piling on, saying "Look out! The DA will put you away as a vicious killer!". It was mostly a disclaimer to prevent useless cluttering of the thread . To answer your question, no, there's no velocity info on the box or on the website, but based on advertised velocity, I should be golden if I can get to around the mid to upper 800's. Not interested in +P velocities, IF this gets used in a SD scenario, I won't be shooting through a windshield. But like I said, this is mostly a fall back, I have a variety of 9's that I consider appropriate for SD/HD or carry, I just want to know that this one will handle my preferred SD ammo, Gold Dots, should the need arise.

Medic!, those are 185's, I tend to favor 200 or 230's, but thanks for the link, I didn't have that one in my ammo sources directory, and it looks like their prices are good, especially with free shipping on case lots. Looks like the 230 is out of stock, I suspect they may have trouble getting restocked without getting in line with manufacturer restrictions, unless it was a lie by the other sources to have an excuse to raise prices . Time will tell, in the meantime, I'll be rolling my own, I can match the cost using all new components, and once I start reusing brass, the price will drop considerably. Now to find out which loading gives me what I want, accuracy first, then I'll worry about velocity. Later.

Dave

ETA: Had another thought about the "restriction" on LE boxes, maybe they're only enforcing it on 9 mm, as I suspect far more of it gets sold vs. .45 ACP.

 

[oremike]

Speer recently started selling the Gold Dot bullets on their web site. The Mil spec load is a 230 FMJ RN at about 850fps. There is lots of 230 FMJ data out there, pick data that is close to these numbers with a the lesser pressures, start low and work up to get the results you want. Some 1911's feed gold dots better, others like Hornady XTP's. They are just enough different bullet shape that it can make a difference.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

5.5gr bullseye might do it

 

[bsa1917hunter]

Before anyone asks, no, I don't intend to use these for carry or HD/SD, but with the recent enforcement of the 50 rd. boxes being LE only, the price has gone back to stupid, too stupid for testing/practicing. But on the off chance that I DO decide to use my CZ 97 .45 ACP as a bedside gun, I'd like to load it with a viable defensive round, but first I want to make sure it will digest them with no hick-ups, before buying factory ammo.

So I picked up a box of 230 gr. Gold Dot bullets at the LGS today. I have 4 different powders on hand, Bullseye, W231, VV N320, and CFE Pistol. The standard (not +P) loading has an advertised velocity of 830 FPS, has anyone worked up a load with one of the above powders that gets close to that? Yes, I have multiple manuals as well as on-line load data, but if someone has already done this, why reinvent the wheel ? Thanks.

Dave

My question is why would you not use your handloads for a self defense load?? Please excuse my ignorance, but if you can't trust your own handloads, maybe you shouldn't be loading ammo. If there is another reason, please fill me in.. I've loaded up many 230gr. gold dots for my 45 ACP, but used them for bowling pin shoots at my club. Like with most 230gr. jhp projectiles, I strive for 800-850fps and 5.8gr. of Hodgdon Universal gets me there with my pistol, with excellent accuracy. I've also used newer powders like longshot and powerpistol to get over 900+fps in my 45 with the gold dots, XTP's and other JHP bullets. However, if you are looking for a clean burning fairly low recoiling, accurate load, I'd try Universal powder. It's about the best I've tried in the 45 with that weight of bullet.

 

[ageingstudent]

My question is why would you not use your handloads for a self defense load?? Please excuse my ignorance, but if you can't trust your own handloads, maybe you shouldn't be loading ammo. If there is another reason, please fill me in..

Some are concerned about what might happen in court should you ever be involved in a defensive shooting with handloads. They generally feel a prosecutor might make the point that you were looking for trouble with a "more" deadly round. Others are not concerned. In a nutshell. It's often a contentious argument so I try to stay shy of it other than reading .

 

[orygun]

5.5gr bullseye might do it

Yeah, it might.
When looking for answers to questions like this the first place I go is my Lyman manual because of the wide range of bullets/powders tested (I need to buy a newer one that covers the more recent powders).
Lyman listed 5.3gr of Bullseye as max with a comparable bullet at 838fps. I wouldn't choose Bullseye or 231 for a full power load. They are just a little too fast. Unique or Blue Dot would work very well in this velocity range, but they're dirty and many people complain about that.

Since folks are getting into the handloads for self defense the OP wanted to avoid, I'll just add that I carry with my own ammo on occasions. Don't give it a second thought.

 

[orygun]

Anyone ever try Ramshot Enforcer?

 

[DirectDrive]

Before anyone asks, no, I don't intend to use these for carry or HD/SD, but with the recent enforcement of the 50 rd. boxes being LE only, the price has gone back to stupid, too stupid for testing/practicing. But on the off chance that I DO decide to use my CZ 97 .45 ACP as a bedside gun, I'd like to load it with a viable defensive round, but first I want to make sure it will digest them with no hick-ups, before buying factory ammo.

So I picked up a box of 230 gr. Gold Dot bullets at the LGS today. I have 4 different powders on hand, Bullseye, W231, VV N320, and CFE Pistol. The standard (not +P) loading has an advertised velocity of 830 FPS, has anyone worked up a load with one of the above powders that gets close to that? Yes, I have multiple manuals as well as on-line load data, but if someone has already done this, why reinvent the wheel ? Thanks.

Dave

The Lucky Gunner 45ACP test results might be useful to you.
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#45ACP

 

[oremike]

Anyone ever try Ramshot Enforcer?

Enforcer is pretty slow burning and likes higher operating pressures so is not a good choice in the 45acp. It's just a hair faster than W-296. I do use it in Magnum loadings in 41, 357 and 44.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

Yeah, it might.
When looking for answers to questions like this the first place I go is my Lyman manual because of the wide range of bullets/powders tested (I need to buy a newer one that covers the more recent powders).
Lyman listed 5.3gr of Bullseye as max with a comparable bullet at 838fps. I wouldn't choose Bullseye or 231 for a full power load. They are just a little too fast. Unique or Blue Dot would work very well in this velocity range, but they're dirty and many people complain about that.

Since folks are getting into the handloads for self defense the OP wanted to avoid, I'll just add that I carry with my own ammo on occasions. Don't give it a second thought.

i use 5.5gr bullseye with plated RN 230gr for when shooting thru my 1911 with a suppressor on the end of it. im consistantly getting 845-850fps it IS a little stout but im not getting over pressure signs. for standard "ball ammo" i use 5gr bullseye and consistantly getting 815-825 fps over the chrono.

heres some bullseye load data from alliants website:

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

a couple guys i know are getting good results with clays powder with a 230gr pill too

 

[CaptJack]

Local Sportco (fife) has 230gr Gold Dot for sale in 50round boxes for a decent price. A few years back just before the last ammo scare I met a LEO and we made a deal for 10 boxes of 230gr gold dot so 500 rounds, I'm fine in that area. However when in Brick and mortar gun stores I always take a look and last weekend I think it was like 24.95 for a box of 50.

 

[oremike]

I make it for about $29.00/box of 50 but you'd need to pick it up at an Oregon gun show or pay the freight.

 

[Twodogs]

I've shot 5.7 grs of W-231 with a 230 gr bullet for years never check vel but it always shot good.

 

[orygun]

Enforcer is pretty slow burning and likes higher operating pressures so is not a good choice in the 45acp. It's just a hair faster than W-296. I do use it in Magnum loadings in 41, 357 and 44.

I read an article where Ramshot used to list high velocity loads of Enforcer in 45 ACP. Would push a 230 gr bullet to over 1000 fps from a 5" without going to +p pressures. They dropped the listing citing that it was not "efficient". 1000fps with a 230 is efficient to me!

 

[oremike]

I think what they are referring to as "efficiency" is if with one powder you can get 950fps using 10grs of powder for example and using 20 grs of another only gains you 50fps the first example would be deemed much more efficient and the later not so much.