Replicating factory ammo...???

[KennVFRidr]

It's been 20+ years since I ran my RL550B...and I'm slowly working back into shooting with any regularity. With varied interests, and all the usual life oriented time complications, I'm probably coming into this backwards, but at any rate...

Recently finished getting new rifle set up, .300 BLK upper, 9" Faxon barrel, 1 in 8 twist, Obsidian45 suppressor, Leupold RDS optic. When I started project, I intended to assemble myself, but eventually realized smart move would be to enlist help from experienced gunsmith for a dependable suppressed "go-to" home defense oriented upper. So, I researched and chose parts myself, but had it assembled and initial setup with suppressor done for me. I followed up with short range sight-in and tested several factory bullet weights looking to see what the rifle likes.

Setup and sight-in was done with Hornady Black 208 gr AMAX, and I followed that with some Winchester 200 gr, Underwood 220 gr, and a box of Hornady 190 gr SUB-X...it liked the Hornady 190 SUB-X's best by far. I'll probably always have factory ammo loaded for a personal/home defense scenario...but I'll want to replicate the factory round as best I can for practice/playtime and this seems like a good starting point.

I've got a bunch of new starline brass and ordered a box of the Hornady 190gr SUB-X bullets...but powder selection seems wayyyy more complicated these days, especially since I'll be trying to load subsonic. I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts/experience with replication of this Hornady subsonic load??? Or similar powder/bullet options??

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[DizzyJ]

Federal 308 gold match 175gr I can help you with. Other factory rounds, not so much.

 

[aasbra]

Do you have any of the factory loaded rounds remaining you are trying to replicate? If so, I'd pull a bullet from the factory loaded round you are trying to replicate and measure/inspect the powder for charge weight, and see if you can get any clues as to the powder they are using based on visual inspection (definitely not suggesting you guess, but maybe it would get you headed in the right direction when you look at published load data).

Also, I'd measure the velocity out of your gun with a chrono of this round, and compare to published load data.

I haven't loaded this bullet, and generally run a 220 or 225 grain coated lead bullet in a bolt action. But in my guns, I've tried 4227, CFE BLK, lil gun, and AA1680. All worked for subsonic loads, but I got the best accuracy and consistent chrono data with 1680 followed by lil gun, at between 1000 fps and 1050 fps.

 

[Saladfarmer]

If you go to the Hogdon website,(

Reloading Data Center – Hodgdon Reloading Data Center

hodgdonreloading.com

) they have published data for the taking choose cartridge, bullet weight, powder..
also ammoguide.com . I recommend just getting a membership to ammoguide if you plan on getting back into reloading, it's a fantastic tool to have. you can search by powder or cartridge and a lot more. it has almost all the powders made in the last 50 years.
300 BLK is going to use your typical magnum pistol powders, H110 is pretty popular, but use caution with you charge weight.
W296 also, all work for Subs too.

 

[KennVFRidr]

Do you have any of the factory loaded rounds remaining you are trying to replicate? If so, I'd pull a bullet from the factory loaded round you are trying to replicate and measure/inspect the powder for charge weight, and see if you can get any clues as to the powder they are using based on visual inspection (definitely not suggesting you guess, but maybe it would get you headed in the right direction when you look at published load data).

Also, I'd measure the velocity out of your gun with a chrono of this round, and compare to published load data.

I haven't loaded this bullet, and generally run a 220 or 225 grain coated lead bullet in a bolt action. But in my guns, I've tried 4227, CFE BLK, lil gun, and AA1680. All worked for subsonic loads, but I got the best accuracy and consistent chrono data with 1680 followed by lil gun, at between 1000 fps and 1050 fps.

I do have more of the SUB-X, so pulling a bullet and checking powder appearance and charge weight sounds like a good idea once I get up to speed. Chronograph is next on my budget list...but making space for Bench is next setup hurdle.

 

[KennVFRidr]

If you go to the Hogdon website,(

Reloading Data Center – Hodgdon Reloading Data Center

hodgdonreloading.com

) they have published data for the taking choose cartridge, bullet weight, powder..
also ammoguide.com . I recommend just getting a membership to ammoguide if you plan on getting back into reloading, it's a fantastic tool to have. you can search by powder or cartridge and a lot more. it has almost all the powders made in the last 50 years.
300 BLK is going to use your typical magnum pistol powders, H110 is pretty popular, but use caution with you charge weight.
W296 also, all work for Subs too.

Just ran into the ammoguide site last week, but have not explored it yet. H110 looks to be pretty successful choice for the .300 BLK, I'll have to keep an eye out for it.

 

[Explorer1]

CFE BLK was created for subsonic BLK ammo IIRC.

 

[KennVFRidr]

CFE BLK was created for subsonic BLK ammo IIRC.

I think your correct, and it's on my list...but with all the variables in specific use, personal priority preferences and opposing reviews...I probably need to just try it myself to see how it works in my specific application.

 

[oremike]

If you are going to make/shoot factory ammo you may as well just save your time and money and shoot factory ammo. If you want to make/shoot better than factory ammo then rolling your own might be for you.

 

[KennVFRidr]

If you are going to make/shoot factory ammo you may as well just save your time and money and shoot factory ammo. If you want to make/shoot better than factory ammo then rolling your own might be for you.

In the early 90's after purchasing my first handgun I read somewhere that one should avoid using reloaded/hand loaded ammunition in a self defense situation...simply to avoid any potential legal/lawsuit ramifications. It was something that made sense at the time, and has stuck with me for the last 30 years.

While I have not done the calculations currently, it used to be less expensive to load ones own ammunition, and potentially produce more accurate and/or better performing ammo. I this case I'd like to replicate the performance of a specific factory cartridge which performs well out of my rifle...ideally giving me a less expensive, but very similar performing option to practice with.

Admittedly, it's been 20+ years since I did the cost per round calculations, so maybe I'm wrong...I quess it's time to do some math...

 

[oremike]

The thing everyone misses when doing the costs per round calculations is the time factor. How easy is it to order/buy your preferred factory ammo vs how long does it take to develop and make that exact same load? Now if that time becomes an investment into making making higher quality, better shooting ammo then it betters the shooting experience. And there is some justifiable pride in "I made that". I'll use me as an example. I've been reloading over 40 years and the only reason years I shoot factory ammo is to get the brass. I have a 300 Win mag that I am in the process of developing my pet load for. My goal for this load is a 1" group at 200 yds using a Nosler 200gr Partition. My zero will be 4" high at the 200 yds to give me a point blank range of just under 400 yds. So far I've made 10 rounds of ammo and been to the range twice. Let's just call it 3 hours of time for 10 rounds. My last job I was making $28/hr so $84.00 worth of time and I'm still not done yet. The reward for me is when I get the load just right and it meets my goals then when I put the cross hairs where I want the bullet to and it goes there every time. My rifle, my ammo, I did that. Bang , flop. On the backside when I get this load just right it will still take me all day to make a couple hundred rounds but they should last me the rest of my life.

 

[Koda]

In the early 90's after purchasing my first handgun I read somewhere that one should avoid using reloaded/hand loaded ammunition in a self defense situation...simply to avoid any potential legal/lawsuit ramifications. It was something that made sense at the time, and has stuck with me for the last 30 years.

that hasnt changed....

While I have not done the calculations currently, it used to be less expensive to load ones own ammunition, and potentially produce more accurate and/or better performing ammo. I this case I'd like to replicate the performance of a specific factory cartridge which performs well out of my rifle...ideally giving me a less expensive, but very similar performing option to practice with.

Admittedly, it's been 20+ years since I did the cost per round calculations, so maybe I'm wrong...I quess it's time to do some math...

technically what you want is a cheap similar load. Using the same Hornady 190gr SUB-X bullet is whats throwing everyone off here and will probably be almost as expensive as the factory round handloading with those bullets.
What I think would be better is the cheapest bullet loaded to subsonic velocity should suffice. Also is it possible to buy cheap bulk factor subsonic ammo?
I would think as long as your hitting sub sonic velocities any ammo and bullet will "feel" the same recoil wise to train and practice with and if you stick with the same or close to the 190gn weight your POI zero shouldnt change.

 

[Catfishmoon]

In the early 90's after purchasing my first handgun I read somewhere that one should avoid using reloaded/hand loaded ammunition in a self defense situation...simply to avoid any potential legal/lawsuit ramifications. It was something that made sense at the time, and has stuck with me for the last 30 years.

I have also seen that from multiple sources and it is one that I personally adhere too also, my self-defense rounds are from well known manufactures.
However, I think it comes down to an individual's perspective and their level of risk tolerance in front of a jury. I have noticed that the people making claims not to use reloaded ammo for self-defense like Massad Ayoob on the Wilson Combat YouTube channel also argue against making any change to a factory trigger or embellishing the firearm with anything that could make the gun owner seem overly aggressive (like a Punisher logo on the gun).
Others argue that the circumstances surrounding the shooting are all that matter regardless of ammo used or gun modifications. I tend to believe that prosecutors and juries are emotional beings and those types of issues do have an effect on their decisions.

 

[Saladfarmer]

they just re released this video. it'll help you make the determination if reloading will work for you financially.
If you are planning on practicing a lot with the 300BLK, you will be paying considerably less per round with reloaded vs. factory subs,
depending on what projectile you may be using. At short range, such as home defense, your point of impact will not
be shifted too much if at all. Casting and powder coating 245 gr. pills will save you a lot more money....
\AND what's your time worth...

 

[Koda]

theres a couple of these online but heres a good handloading cost estimator to judge what your saving vs just buying factory ammo...

Reloading Costs Calculator – Ultimate Reloader

ultimatereloader.com

 

[oremike]

As far as re manufactured ammo, I'm a licensed manufacturer and if I won't carry my ammo, how can I ask anyone else to as well.

 

[KennVFRidr]

The thing everyone misses when doing the costs per round calculations is the time factor. How easy is it to order/buy your preferred factory ammo vs how long does it take to develop and make that exact same load? Now if that time becomes an investment into making making higher quality, better shooting ammo then it betters the shooting experience. And there is some justifiable pride in "I made that". I'll use me as an example. I've been reloading over 40 years and the only reason years I shoot factory ammo is to get the brass. I have a 300 Win mag that I am in the process of developing my pet load for. My goal for this load is a 1" group at 200 yds using a Nosler 200gr Partition. My zero will be 4" high at the 200 yds to give me a point blank range of just under 400 yds. So far I've made 10 rounds of ammo and been to the range twice. Let's just call it 3 hours of time for 10 rounds. My last job I was making $28/hr so $84.00 worth of time and I'm still not done yet. The reward for me is when I get the load just right and it meets my goals then when I put the cross hairs where I want the bullet to and it goes there every time. My rifle, my ammo, I did that. Bang , flop. On the backside when I get this load just right it will still take me all day to make a couple hundred rounds but they should last me the rest of my life.

Wellll...since I'm retired... ...but even when I was running my press 20 years ago, it was fun and/or relaxing once I got going. And, like you...when you get it right, that is the real reward.

 

[Twodogs]

Can someone please post a link to a story where someone got jammed up for using reloads in a justified shooting, I have heard the same thing as the rest of you for as long as I can remember but have never seen the proof.

 

[Koda]

Can someone please post a link to a story where someone got jammed up for using reloads in a justified shooting, I have heard the same thing as the rest of you for as long as I can remember but have never seen the proof.

There arent any links that anyone gets convicted only because they used handloads, the argument is that its part of whats used against you to convince a jury.

Bullet choice was used against Rittenhouse, it got thrown out but they tried. There was a case years ago of a guy named Harold Fish who was convicted of murder and using a 10mm with hollowpoints was something the prosecutor brought up in the trial. Its not unreasonable to suggest that using handloads can be used against you.

 

[Twodogs]

There arent any links that anyone gets convicted only because they used handloads, the argument is that its part of whats used against you to convince a jury.

Bullet choice was used against Rittenhouse, it got thrown out but they tried. There was a case years ago of a guy named Harold Fish who was convicted of murder and using a 10mm with hollowpoints was something the prosecutor brought up in the trial. Its not unreasonable to suggest that using handloads can be used against you.

In both cases bullet choice was brought up and had no effect on the outcome of the case, reload or store bought was never the issue.