Expectations in a changing culture

[turbo_vanner]

The tide pod generation, we are so screwed.
saw one today, if it wasn't for the tatoos, piercings, and the half blonde half black hair buzzed short on the sides, she wouldn't have looked too bad.
who would hire someone who looked like that? Another of her kind I suppose.
zero practical experience or skills.
Likely a professional student.

i'm actually an engineer and machinist for a body jewelry company, all of our employees, as well as the owner are full of tattoos, piercings, horn implants, etc. So yes, our 'kind' does employ our 'kind'. So does, oh, say, the post office. Our mail carrier has 1.5" ear lobes full of our product. and it has no bearing on how useful or productive we are. In fact, most of the griping about running a small business in pdx seem to come from the clean cut reserved looking folks. I don't know how they run businesses, but we're doing great, despite the tidepod diet, and having to abandon and give up cars with flat tires.

I could make a list just as long about how unless and/or unproductive boomers are in this day and age, but it's not very helpful to anything.

Edit - also, the shop owner with said sub-dermal implants, uses an entire shipping container as his gun safe, and would consider himself a democratic socialist.

 

[Stomper]

With .30 caliber clipazines, the ability to disperse 30 rounds in 1/2 second and the shoulder thing that goes up it's no wonder people are scared of ARs. Too bad Beto dropped out, he was going to take them all and save us from evil.



Oh, I always liked the term "high powered rifle" when describing the AR. Sooooo accurate, sooooo scary. Ah, did I mention the best part? The AR is BLACK!!

 

[Hueco]

Or even better, GARAND THUMB!
I think every red blooded American male of the species should be required to show his Garand Thumb as a part of his Man card issuance, he must show his thumb on demand to prove his qualifications of manhood!

Is this you in this article??

A horrifying experiment in "Garand Thumb" -

Fellow C&R firearms enthusiast Oelund has undertaken a rather extreme experiment. He has given us permission to display the results here: Some of you might have heard the term “Garand-Thumb” or “M1-Thumb”. That is the name for when the bolt of an M1 Garand slams closed on your thumb. A...

www.thefirearmblog.com

 

[MannyGlocks]

"I'd prefer to acknowledge their fear, talk about, demonstrate that it's nothing to be worried about and mentor them."

Let me guess, you're a sensible young woman?

I'm reminded of my time being yelled at and treated more than a little harshly by my various Drill Instructors during Army Basic Training and Advanced Infantry Training and other war schools. We never had our fear acknowledged, but we did get severely punished if we didn't respond well...but we were expected as men to act like...men. There's no crying in the Army...

I spent the afternoon chainsawing up some oak firewood. Got that finished (about half a cord) and started working on felling a 45/50' Chinese Tallow tree with an approximate girth of 16/18". This is an invasive species and this one has grown old and dangerous with a lot of widow makers on top.

Didn't dare use the chainsaw on it. The vibration could cause enough movement I might've been brained by one of the very many old, ready to fall, large, top branches. So I very, very carefully sawed it down with a bow saw using sweat equity.

Just a little anecdote about doing physically demanding stuff even now as a callused old brute who still thinks stoicism is a fine quality to instill in young people.

 

[bbbass]

Well, bagging on the younger generation for their lack of exposure to firearms is a great way to keep them from picking up the sport. I'd prefer to acknowledge their fear, talk about, demonstrate that it's nothing to be worried about and mentor them. They'll come around with the right coaching but making fun of them just makes the gun culture look like a-holes and further divides.

The gentleman in the other thread was treated quite gently IMO... He even mentioned in the OP that he was hard to insult. You see it differently?

BTW... what does "bagging on" someone mean?

 

[Hueco]

A recent thread got me thinking. This is in regards to the explosive recoil of a 5.56mm AR15. I started a new thread because I didn't want the sidetrack the other one, and I don't mean to belittle the OP on that thread. We all have to start somewhere, and it's a valid concern if it wasn't what he was expecting.

That said, I wonder if that poster's experience is more common now than it once was, in our changing culture. In generations past, I think it was more common for people (men especially) to have a background in hunting, military service, or just growing up on a farm. You generally have different expectations and perspectives on firearms with that type of background. Back in the day, Dad, Grandpa, or Uncle Joe put a 30-06 in your hands at 12 years old, and laughed at your bruises.

Nowadays the average person's experience with guns is more likely to be what they see in video games or on TV, where they go "Pop Pop Pop" and don't kick.

We hear this time and again. Politicians talk about the extreme power of "assault guns", and how scary they are to shoot. I remember a few months back, some quasi-conservative jokers on the radio (Armstrong and Getty) went to a range and shot the dreaded AR, with the takeaway that they are indeed awesomely powerful and should be restricted.

I remember a Doonsbury comic 20+ years ago, where a hunter shot a deer with an AR. Of course it was full auto, and all that was left were little bits of fur and bone. Talk about absurd misconceptions! Reality is that the 5.56 is not even legal for hunting in some areas because it too small and underpowered.

I also cringe when I hear people (on both sides) talk like the AR is something really special. It's not. It's a good design, but it's just a rifle. A former coworker was spouting off years ago after a horrible shooting, and got violently angry when I told him the AR is just a rifle. In his mind, it's Satan's Death Ray or something. He wouldn't believe me that it's been around for 60 years, and millions of GIs in Vietnam complained about it being too underpowered and ineffective.

Maybe it's just me, and I'm starting to get old and grumpy. These young whipper-snappers these days...

So, when I started rock climbing, one learned by climbing outside. Rock gyms were just starting to come into play and they were owned by grizzled old timers looking for ways to fund their climbing and/or simply climb all day, every day.

We treated the gym as the place to go after work, or in crap weather...but the end goal was climbing outside.

Now-a-days gyms are huge and there is an entire generation of super strong competition level climbers who couldn't tell you what a cam is or the difference between granite and sandstone. Hell, a good many don't even know back-clipping.

And the worst part? Climbing outside is no longer their goal.

It's a different generation, man. But that's okay...fewer people outside on my routes doesn't strike me as a negative .

I see the same in the gun community. Many people in the past learned using dad or grandpa's rifle while hunting. The new generation learned at an indoor gun range starting with a .22LR pistol. So, yea, to those people .223 is a big round. And since most indoor gun ranges don't allow .30 caliber and larger rifle rounds, they never experience them.

BTW, I'm part of that generation. I just lucked out and was brought into the fold by marines...who are more than happy to put the biggest caliber rifle they have in a newbie's hands with little to no instruction. (See previous post on scope bite).

 

[MannyGlocks]

Hueco,

Competitive mall walking has become all the rage and among many other pluses it doesn't dry out one's elbows.

 

[turbo_vanner]

we were expected as men to act like...men. There's no crying in the Army...

no, vets just deal with their emotions in a healthy, non-suicidal way....

 

[ScottRi]

The gentleman in the other thread was treated quite gently IMO... He even mentioned in the OP that he was hard to insult. You see it differently?

BTW... what does "bagging on" someone mean?

Bagging is basically talking crap about them or insulting them. I wasn't talking so much about he previous thread as the some of the opinions in this one. And for the record I do it myself. But I try hard to treat all kinds of people that express any interest in guns with the utmost courtesy because in my mind that's the only way the community can stay strong is to bring new people in to weather we agree with them or not.

 

[Hueco]

I'd prefer to acknowledge their fear, talk about, demonstrate that it's nothing to be worried about and mentor them.

"I'd prefer to acknowledge their fear, talk about, demonstrate that it's nothing to be worried about and mentor them."

I'm reminded of my time being yelled at and treated more than a little harshly by my various Drill Instructors during Army Basic Training and Advanced Infantry Training and other war schools. We never had our fear acknowledged, but we did get severely punished if we didn't respond well...but we were expected as men to act like...men. There's no crying in the Army...

I think there's a happy medium here. If I'd have taken a drill instructor's tact during the decade that I acted as a climbing instructor, I'd have considerably less graduates and maybe even some injuries (instead, I can boast about over 1000 trained and 0 injuries on my watch).

People looking to learn to shoot are signing up for just that: learning to shoot. They're not joining the military.

+1 to acknowledging fear and demonstrating.

Also +1 to having a stern, just do it attitude after the above.

 

[slimmer13]

we're too busy working minimum wage with a masters degree

Well theres the problem.

I know a 20yo making easy six figures wrenching on cars out of his garage. No school, self taught and fully certified.

Maybe kids shouldn't be getting useless degrees that dont teach any real marketable skills?

 

[MannyGlocks]

"...weather we agree with them or not."

Regarding what?

Chocolate or vanilla?

Or some other innocent differences of opinions?

If they're about substantsive issues, I should treat them with 'utmost courtesy'?

Example: What if they're anti-fa types?

I won't be treating them with utmost courtesy. Were I to do that it'd be a one way street...

I'll never be a pacifist while evil exists.

 

[2thdrglock]

no, vets just deal with their emotions in a healthy, non-suicidal way....

Wow, that's about the most condescending, disrespectful utterance I've encountered this year, and I'm not a Veteran. Learn a little respect. I doubt that any Veteran ever developed PTSD, depression, or committed suicide over what their drill instructor said or did to them. IT'S FROM THE COMBAT EXPERIENCE OF WAR. Are you really that dense or am I missing something? Please correct me if I am misinterpreting your comment, and I will gladly retract and apologize.

 

[ScottRi]

"...weather we agree with them or not."

Regarding what?

Chocolate or vanilla?

Or some other innocent differences of opinions?

If they're about substantsive issues, I should treat them with 'utmost courtesy'?

Example: What if they're anti-fa types?

I won't be treating them with utmost courtesy. Were I to do that it's be a one way street...

I'll never be a pacifist while evil exists.

I'm talking about people with a different world view than mine. I'm a moderate leaning to the right but I'm happy as hell to take an anti gun millenial to the range any day. As for Antifa I don't interview people on their politics so unless they are wear an "I'm Antifa" how the hell would I know? And even if they were, believing in a stupid ideology and acting on it are two different things. If they are out to commit violence and injure kill people over politics I don't care what side you are on, I'm not your guy. If you are interested in target shooting, self defense or other shooting sports I couldn't care less how you vote.

 

[MannyGlocks]

I fully appreciate psycho-babble philosophy is accepted by a lot of young people as a kinder, gentler way to go about life.

Sadly, they're predators out there just looking for gentle folk, they can eat alive....

 

[MannyGlocks]

"I'm happy as hell to take an anti gun millenial to the range any day."

Agree with this...the rest, nah...

 

[ScottRi]

The fact is, it's a hell of a lot easier to get non gun people to vote for 2A issues if they enjoy shooting sports than if they don't.

 

[DLS]

It's all about exposure in my mind. My 20-yr old son has two high-school friends who are now active duty Marines, both currently on float. They love coming home on liberty for a number of reasons, one of which is they get to go out with my small collection of "real battle rifles". My Mausers, Springfields, and Garands keep them happy experiencing "real shooting". They also like it when the .338 Mag comes along to play.

What is my point? Well there are several:

1. They like the .30 cal + rounds because of the blast and recoil. They don't get that with an M4, which by the way was their first introduction to guns other than an occasional outing with a .22LR. Without an exposure to these higher powered rifles, they would be like most others today, thinking the 5.56 round was a really high-powered affair.

2. These young men, and the hundreds of young person's I've interacted with the last decade or so as a university professor are not incapable, apathetic or many of the other things being stated here and other places. With proper role models and an opportunity many (most) can and do rise to the occasion when given the opportunity.

3. I quoted "real" in my above post because "real" is a subjective, culturally relevant thing. Is anyone here really going to push the idea that an M16 is not a "real battle rifle"? While is has shortcomings it has served well in the capacity of a battle rifle. Oh, by the way, the M1 and M14 had their shortcomings too ... hmm so did all the other rifles used throughout the history of conflict.

So instead of complaining a "generation whatever" person doesn't know how to shoot a "real rifle" why not take them out and let them shoot yours? Or teach them to change a tire? Or ...? There is a lot of opportunity to reach the younger generations that I (yes this is my opinion) feel are being missed by the current crop of mature shooters.

When I go to the range I'm usually one of the younger ones there and I just turned 60. When I bring my 14 yr-old daughter to some of the mainstay ranges here we are treated with cold distain, over and over and over again. We even suffer degrading comments from "real shooters" for daring to come out with a kid's rifle and waste range time and space (even though there are plenty of open lanes) shooting such stupid crap. (the last line was a composite quote from comments we have heard just in the last few years).

So ... time to end this rant and state simply:

OP ... I think you are correct, the younger generations did not grow up with the hardware of prior generations and as such their conceptions and understandings of firearms are impacted by this fact.

Rant off ... I"m actually off in a bit to take two 14-yr old friends of my daughter to the gravel pit ... to hopefully impact thier conceptions of firearms in a positive and fun way.

 

[MannyGlocks]

Again, we agree.

Sadly, they're (according to the lib gun club types) many who claim to be pro-gun, until election time...and maybe they do enjoy guns and shooting, but are marxist at heart.

Yes, try to bring them into the fold, but don't think that if they enjoy shooting they're automatically going to vote pro-gun, as disappointing as that sounds.

My point: Don't depend on shooters to necessarily vote pro-gun as oxymoron-ish as that sounds.

Weird, I know....

 

[turbo_vanner]

Well theres the problem.

I know a 20yo making easy six figures wrenching on cars out of his garage. No school, self taught and fully certified.

Maybe kids shouldn't be getting useless degrees that dont teach any real marketable skills?

I thought a geology degree was useful, turns out, its not, unless you're interested in oil fields and their associated culture.... which I couldn't be farther from, regardless of the money. I did happened to pick up CAD/CAM and CNC milling because my employer was willing to teach me, and I'm thankful for that. Kinda wish I did it from the get go though.