Does this sound right to you?

[Andy54Hawken]

I just jumped over to IMFDB.org - according to them, the rifles used by the Sioux in that scene were all Sharps 1863's and the Saddle Ring Carbines. Definitely guns I don't know much, if anything, about.

So the '63 Sharps rifles and Carbines were mostly in .52 and .54 caliber.
They were a breech loading firearm that used paper cartridges.
The paper cartridge held the black powder and was "wrapped" around the bullet.

To load a Sharps ...
You put the hammer on half cock...
Pulled the under lever ( trigger guard )...
Which drops the breech...
Load the cartridge...
Close the breech .. when closing the breech the breech block cuts the back of the cartridge ... exposing the power...
Put a musket cap on the nipple...
Full cock the hammer... aim ... fire .... repeat.

These are very accurate firearms and were highly sought after.
There was a Federal Unit known as "Berdan's Sharpshooters " who in a large part were armed with these rifles.
That is where the term "Sharpshooter" for a skilled marksman comes from.
Berdan also invented the Berdan priming system.
Andy

 

[etrain16]

So the '63 Sharps rifles and Carbines were mostly in .52 and .54 caliber.
They were a breech loading firearm that used paper cartridges.
The paper cartridge held the black powder and was "wrapped" around the bullet.

To load a Sharps ...
You put the hammer on half cock...
Pulled the under lever ( trigger guard )...
Which drops the breech...
Load the cartridge...
Close the breech .. when closing the breech the breech block cuts the back of the cartridge ... exposing the power...
Put a musket cap on the nipple...
Full cock the hammer... aim ... fire .... repeat.

These are very accurate firearms and were highly sought after.
There was a Federal Unit known as "Berdan's Sharpshooters " who in a large part were armed with these rifles.
That is where the term "Sharpshooter" for a skilled marksman comes from.
Berdan also invented the Berdan priming system.
Andy

Great info, thanks Andy!

 

[tac]

Initially, Col Hiram Berdan's force was equipped with the less-than-effective Colt Revolving rifle...

tac

 

[Andy54Hawken]

That they were ... the unit that received the Colt rifle threatened mutiny until armed with Sharps rifles.
Also at first many soldiers brought their own muzzle loading target rifles...
Andy

 

[Ura-Ki]

The Colt Revolving Rifles were far more effective then most give credit for, but yes, compared to the next generation of "Cartridge" arms and repeaters, not so great. A skilled rifleman could reload his Revolving Carbine in about a min, and the effective range was determined by the quality of the powder and lead, with 400 yards being the excepted norm for them, and with the later "Fast Twist" barrels, could gain another 150 yards or so. A loaded Colt was also half the weight of the later long arms, could be loaded with pre-made paper cartridges, and could also use round ball or shot as needed/ desired! Last of the Colts were equipped with a surprisingly effective rear tang sight graduated to 800 yards, and had a quick take down pin to allow rapid change out of the cylinder to effect very quick reloads, By having extra cylinders pre loaded, a skilled rifleman being able to reload his rifle 3 times a min, bringing 18 shots accurately to the fight!

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Are there any period records of using extra pre- loaded cylinders?
I have seen this referred to in modern times ... but not in a 19th century source.
Andy

 

[bbbass]

Did they ever solve the "chain fire" incidents... bear grease or something?

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Grease on the front of the cylinder will cut down on the chance of a chain fire.
In the 1860's the Army did conduct a study to see just how often and what caused this to happen.
The findings were it could happen if you were sloppy in loading ... but it actually was hard to do if you loaded correctly.
Andy

 

[Ura-Ki]

I ran into a number of references of this practice whist viewing records of the Texas and Arizona Rangers, but I have not seen "Official" Army recommendations. I believe this was a field expedient solution, BUT, COLT records do show the Modification to the cylinder pin conversion ( which is origionaslly a pair of set screws), and manufacturing records show extra cylinders ordered both privately and for arsenal use.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Thanks ... I have never seen a period reference to the practice of extra cylinders.
( Not saying there ain't none ... Just that I haven't seen 'em )

I would have thought to have seen some in the cased presentation boxes for Colt revolvers.
Andy

 

[Certaindeaf]

We've talked about whistling bullets but, little known fact..
them southern boys would catcall real loud, causing them dumb northerners to stick their heads outa their shells hoping to spy sweet Polly Anna.. kerpew! they never learned

 

[Ura-Ki]

Did they ever solve the "chain fire" incidents... bear grease or something?

Mostly, By issuing a improved mold, the projectiles would be .46 cal, and the extra material would be shaved off during the bullet seating step. Bullets should also have two gas/grease rings which was also supposed to prevent chain firing! Normal practice was to also use grease to seal the front end of the cylinder, but would likely be skipped during a fight.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Here are two improved design molds, that give a 220 gr .44 cal projectile. The first mold shaves off quite a bit of lead and has no gas/grease rings, but still seals the cylinder quite well. The second mold has the rings and adds about 5 more grains to the projectile, And is also a lot easier to seat in the cylinder. NOTE, pistol molds can be used for the rifles, but rifle molds cannot be used for the pistols. also Cylinders DO NOT interchange between them, the rifle cylinder is about 3/8 inch longer and holds about 10 grains more powder!

 

[Ura-Ki]

Grease on the front of the cylinder will cut down on the chance of a chain fire.
In the 1860's the Army did conduct a study to see just how often and what caused this to happen.
The findings were it could happen if you were sloppy in loading ... but it actually was hard to do if you loaded correctly.
Andy

Grand Dad believed that the Chain Fire "problem" was more legend then actual fact, and I have never had one chain fire on me!

 

[etrain16]

I like the direction this thread has gone! Very cool stuff

 

[etrain16]

BTW, here is a chain fire on video - about the :21 mark - on the 4th shot, you'll see the cylinder to the left of the barrel also fire almost simultaneously.

And here is an intentional chain fire - they ended up using undersized round ball ammo, no wadding, no lube. Right about the 1:03 mark, he gets a "3 for 1" chain fire:

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Cool video ... and a neat view of how not to load your revolver..
Andy

 

[etrain16]

Cool video ... and a neat view of how not to load your revolver..
Andy

I would never try that myself, but if I did, I think I would have at least worn some welding gloves or something to that effect, just to help protect my hands. He was either stupid or ballsy.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Hey AndyinEverson, Any thoughts on frame flexing of those open top Colts causing a chain fire? Given any flex, I can see the cylinder gap open up just enough to cause this to increase the chances a little bit!

 

[Andy54Hawken]

That might be a cause as well.
To get rid of the flex ... I have replaced the wedge pin with a new oversized on and filed to fit.
This also works on old replicas and originals that need a quick tightening...
Andy