Disturbing legal trend with firearm training

[Colt Carbine]

Interesting, considering training might become a requirement.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Damned if you do, play with the bull!

 

[huzar]

I'm frequently in classes with self-described, "Training Junkies" who just take every class they can afford. They, not me, have to justify to the judge and jury why they took the "500 ways to kill someone with a toothpick" class.

Ah yeah, IIRC he had "You're bubblegumed" engraved on the inside of his AR-15 dust cover. And of course the prosecution spun that as being directed at whoever he shot.

Kinda like that LA cop who got dragged over a bed of nails and some broken glass because she was a competitive shooter.

 

[huzar]

Interesting, considering training might become a requirement.

I can almost guarantee that whatever training will be required will be a piece-of-bubblegum reading from a powerpoint waste of time. After all, the process is the punishment.

 

[RVTECH]

The blonde Atty is kinda hot though.....

 

[Yarome]

The blonde Atty is kinda hot though.....

Smart, cute and likes to shoot. Trifecta marriage material, hu?

 

[bivy53]

So more fearmongering and rumors, got it...

Never watch that channel, too much clickbait. Goes with the Guns & Gadgets clown, Alex Jonesing for Cash, et al.

This ^

 

[Yarome]

It sure would be nice if we got off the whole "fearmongering" BS.

Staying educated by filtering info from multiple sources isn't a bad thing... as long as you keep it in perspective.

For me, it's becoming a real pet peeve hearing 2A'ers throwing around derogatory language over issues that should be important to us all. There is such a thing as over-reacting to every drop of news, regardless of the source, but burying our heads in the sand is what has helped lead us into the current situations we face.

Don't want to stay up on issues or make effort to make a difference? That's every persons perogative, but IMO, if you don't have something positive to contribute.... button your lip and move on. Negativity and snide remarks help nothing.

Just food for thought....

 

[Koda]

For me, it's becoming a real pet peeve hearing 2A'ers throwing around derogatory language over issues that should be important to us all.

Ive never understood ignoring legal advice from lawyers but its a regular thing in these discussions.

 

[Xaevian]

Not all lawyers have your best interest at heart. I know quite a few...

 

[Nosferatu]

They are practicing attorneys and I think the jist was just to be aware of some distrubing trends they have been seeing with prosecutors trying to vilify gun owners by any means.

Basically, don't stop training, but don't go around bragging about it to those who are not in the need to know. It "may" be used against you. Just like... not ever saying "I'm sorry" after a good SD shoot (implying a feeling of guilt) or posting content of an extreme nature that could come back to bite you.

Simply... "food for thought". Being educated and aware of the legal environment we currently live in might just save you some grief. That's all....

Eggzachary!

In other words: STOP POSTING EVERY bubblegumING THING YOU DO ON ANTI-SOCIAL MEDIA!

 

[Xaevian]

Eggzachary!

In other words: STOP POSTING EVERY bubblegumING THING YOU DO ON ANTI-SOCIAL MEDIA!

Yes

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Perception is everything.

What I view as a threat...
How and what I take in from any training...
What I think others are saying and doing ....

Also just how others view me and my words and actions....Is important to consider.

The OP is an example of perception.
Some folks see it as a reminder or as something to consider.
Others view it as fear tactics or fear mongering.

Now if something as simple as a thread or post on the internet is viewed with varying degrees of perception...
Imagine now , actions taken , which are viewed when the observers are under stress and possibly in a fearful situation...
Compounded with a bias or viewpoint that may be opposite of yours.
Perception then may be skewed even more.

Andy

 

[WillametteWill]

Ah yeah, IIRC he had "You're bubblegumed" engraved on the inside of his AR-15 dust cover. And of course the prosecution spun that as being directed at whoever he shot.

Kinda like that LA cop who got dragged over a bed of nails and some broken glass because she was a competitive shooter.

Yup on the dust cover, guessing we have attended the same classes.

With Toni in LA, her other issue (from the department) were her last two shots. Not saying I agree with them, and yes, being a competitive shooter is used against her even though she could be shooting sub .20 splits, hers were closer to .50, very measured. This actually shows her training and competition was beneficial...but attorneys on the other side will still find a way to "Binger" her by spinning the truth.

On another note, there are both "students" and, my pet peeve, "instructors" who feel they need to continually be talking on social media about shooting / training topics. Their right and to each their own. Some of these "instructors" just ramble, and ramble, and ramble. They end up saying and doing stupid stuff, captured forever on the internet. I've watched some where they are showing their students doing all kinds of things "wrong." I see absolutely no benefit in this other than for the attorneys on the other side of isle for them AND their students. They are doing their students a massive disservice in my trying-to-be-humble opinion.

 

[bbbass]

Agree, and would add leaning how to manage/avoid threats. Stopping a threat does not always involve the use of deadly force, yet some spend most if not all their focus in this realm (not you, your points have always been well thought out for the years I've been on this forum!)

Sounds like classroom work.... I was thinking more of the actual shooting/practice/gunhandling/accuracy/speed/strategy time spent on the range. It's hard for me to imagine standing around in front of targets discussing de-escalation, avoidance, etc. In other words, range time is too valuable for that component, although I'm NOT saying it's not an important part of a class. Esp for noobs.

IMO Active Self Protection channel is a good place to learn the cerebral component. John talks about it all the time. Esp enjoy the "Rule of Stupid - modified".

bb

 

[SCLU]

Better to be a mouth breathing basement dweller in the eyes of the law and one that plays with model trails and stores kiddy pron than somebody who actually values their life and it's sanctity.

 

[WillametteWill]

I think something that gets lost in the noise of topics like this is there are many different aspects that need to be considered. The observations from the video in the OP provide the perspective of what they are seeing (sometimes) being used against armed citizens (and police involved in shootings as well). But there is another very important consideration in that in some cases a prosecutor (a reasonable one) may see that someone has and elevated level of training (good training) and can articulate they had no other choice but to use deadly force. Not every Deputy DA is a Binger from the Rittenhouse trial. I've personally worked on prosecutions (not DGU's) with dozens of DDA's and nearly all of them were stand up, reasonable men and women. A few were not. Classes and training equaling due diligence on and armed citizen may keep the case from moving forward. We just don't hear about these situations very often.

Here is another area where (again good) training helps. Heaven forbid you are forced into a DGU and one of your rounds misses (remember Eli Dicken missed two of his 10 shots). What if one of those two hit an innocent? Wouldn't it be better to show you have been training, taking classes and practicing doing everything in your power to avoid this from happening? Does your training emphasize speed and allow misses or does it focus on accuracy? I'm teaching an NRA CCW class with their course of fire and qualification included. How do you fail a qualification? A single miss off the target. Personally, I embrace this standard. And if one of my students ends up in a shooting and I'm called as a witness I can attest that they shot the standard with all rounds hitting their intended target(s).

Great discussion and plenty of moving parts.

 

[Yarome]

I think something that gets lost in the noise of topics like this is there are many different aspects that need to be considered. The observations from the video in the OP provide the perspective of what they are seeing (sometimes) being used against armed citizens (and police involved in shootings as well). But there is another very important consideration in that in some cases a prosecutor (a reasonable one) may see that someone has and elevated level of training (good training) and can articulate they had no other choice but to use deadly force. Not every Deputy DA is a Binger from the Rittenhouse trial. I've personally worked on prosecutions (not DGU's) with dozens of DDA's and nearly all of them were stand up, reasonable men and women. A few were not. Classes and training equaling due diligence on and armed citizen may keep the case from moving forward. We just don't hear about these situations very often.

Here is another area where (again good) training helps. Heaven forbid you are forced into a DGU and one of your rounds misses (remember Eli Dicken missed two of his 10 shots). What if one of those two hit an innocent? Wouldn't it be better to show you have been training, taking classes and practicing doing everything in your power to avoid this from happening? Does your training emphasize speed and allow misses or does it focus on accuracy? I'm teaching an NRA CCW class with their course of fire and qualification included. How do you fail a qualification? A single miss off the target. Personally, I embrace this standard. And if one of my students ends up in a shooting and I'm called as a witness I can attest that they shot the standard with all rounds hitting their intended target(s).

Great discussion and plenty of moving parts.

I think that's a very good take-away from it. It's not that it's always happening, as they stated, just an alarming trend they have noticed in some of their cases where less virtuous prosecutors have been attempting to twist proactive training, public statments and presence as fuel for prosecution.

What I heard... basically... their suggestions to use common sense in how you present yourself online, in person, and to remain private about your training and background. Divulge all information to your attorney and let them decide if it would be to your advantage or not to share it. Spouting off about it though could just as easily be used against you.

Seems pretty common sense advice to be taken... or not. To each their own... but at the very least, the heads up can be appreciated.

 

[CountryGent]

The blonde Atty is kinda hot though.....

True. Still didn't click, but not going to deny it was a factor in that decision making process.

 

[titsonritz]

So more fearmongering and rumors, got it...

Never watch that channel, too much clickbait. Goes with the Guns & Gadgets clown, Alex Jonesing for Cash, et al.

Pretty much. Nor am I changing anything I've done for pretty much my entire life, have fun corralling me into that cattle car headed to the "re-education" camp.

Clear it up any @RBB4ME ?