Dillon: How does powder failsafe bar work?

[CHLChris]

Google has failed me on this one so I am asking the cast resource of NWFA.

I just started putting together a Dillon SDB I bought used right here. The last part I put on was the spring-loaded black curvy bar that connect the bottom of the index lever and the powder actuator, called the failsafe bar.

When there is a piece of brass in the shellplate, the machine seems to "know" and allows the powder bar to actually move over, dropping its measured load of powder. But when there isn't a shell there, the failsafe bar keeps the powder bar from moving over.

If I took the whole thing apart, I'm sure I'd be able to figure out the interior process, but is there anybody here who could explain how in the world that bar interacts with the failsafe bar? I am flummoxed!

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[tinyfat]

Your powder hopper and powder bar is activated by your case. The case pushes up on the powder funnel inside the powder die activating the hoper and powder bar. The failsafe rod just makes sure the hoper and powder bar goes back to the closed position

 

[Stomper]

Watch this series, 76Highboy will get you sorted out!

 

[CHLChris]

No deal. I watched that vid and all he does is show how it installs. That part was easy for me. In fact, one only needs to take off the cotter pin and feed that end through the bracket hole at the bottom all the way up...no need to remove the entire threaded assembly with delrin plug and spring like he did.

But he never got to my actually query. Most people don't care, they just want to know that it IS working. I love knowing HOW it works.

One thing I've figured out is that I was thinking the failsafe bar pushed up on the powder bar somehow. After thinking about it a bit more, I believe the brass shell, itself, is pushing up on the powder funnel, which is, in turn, doing something to the powder bar, which is PULLING up on the failsafe bar. I'm getting closer...

 

[Tilos]

<broken link removed>

dillon how does powder failsafe bar work - Bing video

 

[Lilhigbee]

You are getting there. The shell pushes the powder funnel up which lifts the powder measure and the lever forces the powder bar to slide across. The fail-safe lever is just there to make sure the powder measure drops as you raise the handle. The original Dillon measures didn't have the two-piece lever for the fail-safe. If you watch, as the powder measure starts to return to the bottom the second lever of the fail-safe bumps on the housing of the measure and prevents it from dropping until the rod pulls it down far enough to disengage. At that point the powder measure drops suddenly towards the bottom. Apparently Dillon decided that a slight jarring of the powder measure would settle the powder and provide more accurate measuring. It's function is somewhat limited if the powder bar has any drag to it, usually caused by a buildup of powder residue. If so the fail safe pulls the second bar down before it bumps the housing. A lengthy explanation of a simple operation. If you want to venture out to SE 162nd and Division area I would be more than happy to explain/demonstrate. Just PM me. The pictures show an old-style and new-style fail-safe. The retrograde info posted by Tilos shows how to rivet the two pieces of the new-style one together to make it function like the old style. This is preferred by some users. Hope this helps!!

 

[Certaindeaf]

The Hornady Powder Cop uses command presence to get the job done. Much simpler.

 

[CHLChris]

Wow, thanks for the extra info, @Lilhigbee!! I might be in touch just to connect with another local reloader, see your setup and maybe take away some nuggets of wisdom. Right now, I'm just hoping one of these days I can actually get out of the house to get to work. This weather is REALLY getting annoying!

 

[Tilos]

Google has failed me on this one so I am asking the cast resource of NWFA.

I just started putting together a Dillon SDB I bought used right here. The last part I put on was the spring-loaded black curvy bar that connect the bottom of the index lever and the powder actuator, called the failsafe bar.

When there is a piece of brass in the shellplate, the machine seems to "know" and allows the powder bar to actually move over, dropping its measured load of powder. But when there isn't a shell there, the failsafe bar keeps the powder bar from moving over.

If I took the whole thing apart, I'm sure I'd be able to figure out the interior process, but is there anybody here who could explain how in the world that bar interacts with the failsafe bar? I am flummoxed!

I know many Dillon owners use Lee Pro Disc/Lee Auto Drum or other powder measures because of their accuracy/simplicity/easy setup/cheap.
That said, even the new Lee auto drum has a "lawyer lever" designed to prevent a double charge, that is de-activated by most users.

And by using a spring return (built into the Auto Drum) the measure is closed while the expander is still in the case, for less powder spillage .
Because the square deal (SDB) has non-standard die threads, I'm not sure any Lee measures can be used or adapted to it though.

Edit: fixed it

 

[tarster]

I know many Dillon owners use Lee Pro Disc or Lee Auto Drum powder measures because of their accuracy/simplicity/easy setup/cheap.
That said, even the new Lee auto drum has a "lawyer lever" designed to prevent a double charge, that is de-activated by most users.

And by using a spring return (built into the Auto Drum) the measure is closed while the expander is still in the case, for less powder spillage .
Because the square deal (SDB) has non-standard die threads, I'm not sure any Lee measures can be used or adapted to it though.

Say what!!!!!!! I have not seen or heard of anyone using lee powder heads on a Dillon.. I wouldn't ever think of it.. my Dillon powder head is +- .2 gr all the way till the powder runs out of the hopper... lol I actually ran the powder completely out of my dispenser one time on purpose and measured every other cartridge when it got below the baffle inside.. never changed more than .1 gr until the last 2 cartridges.. i couldn't even see the powder by that point.

 

[Lilhigbee]

Dillon sells an adapter to put other powder measures on their machines so somebody must do it. I agree, I don't know why you would. I too tried the running out of powder and measuring every charge at the last routine. Likewise mine was accurate until the last charge when there wasn't enough powder.

 

[noylj]

Poorly.
Much prefer springs for powder bar movement.
Can't double charge if you fully actuate the handle up and down or if you use the ratchet on the 1050.
However, if a "safety rod" is needed for powder measures, then manual indexing should be just as "illegal."

 

[tarster]

Dillon sells an adapter to put other powder measures on their machines so somebody must do it. I agree, I don't know why you would. I too tried the running out of powder and measuring every charge at the last routine. Likewise mine was accurate until the last charge when there wasn't enough powder.

I have seen where people use like a redding powder drop or something along those lines.. but there is quite a difference in quality from a redding powder drop then a Lee, I know some people that swear by the lee auto disks.. not knocking them, but I dont see the reason to put something that isn't made for the Dillon onto a Dillon..

That being said I am probably going to be doing some mod's to my 550 to hot rod it for custom ammo floating whidden tool heads, redding comp dies and a manual powder funnel so I can measure and drop the powder by hand into the cases.

 

[Lilhigbee]

The Dillon 450 powder die and plastic funnel are what you are looking for. The set screw locks the standard powder funnel in place inside the die and the plastic funnel slips over the outside.
RL 450 Powder Die (20308): Powder Measures, Accessories & Failsafe Systems at Dillon Precision
[URL="https://www.dillonprecision.com/plastic-funnel_8_120_23633.html"]Plastic Funnel (16617): Powder Measures, Accessories & Failsafe Systems at Dillon Precision[/URL]

 

[tarster]

The Dillon 450 powder die and plastic funnel are what you are looking for. The set screw locks the standard powder funnel in place inside the die and the plastic funnel slips over the outside.
RL 450 Powder Die (20308): Powder Measures, Accessories & Failsafe Systems at Dillon Precision
Plastic Funnel (16617): Powder Measures, Accessories & Failsafe Systems at Dillon Precision

Good call on the 450 funnel, I was looking at the 550 and that wouldn't have done what I was looking for.

 

[CHLChris]

I've read, here and there, about all sort of Dillon mods, but decided to set mine up and use it for awhile to discover for myself what I may want or need. I admit I love to tinker and modify my setup so I'm sure I'll be adjusting as I go.

 

[Lilhigbee]

In thinking about it, the reason some of the other powder measures are used is for their better shearing capabilities when using extruded powders. The Dillon measure doesn't do as well with powders like 7828. I don't use those types of powders so it isn't a big deal to me.

 

[tarster]

I've read, here and there, about all sort of Dillon mods, but decided to set mine up and use it for awhile to discover for myself what I may want or need. I admit I love to tinker and modify my setup so I'm sure I'll be adjusting as I go.

So for me I'm not really modding much, the whidden head is just a better made tool head, imay be getting the uniquetek clamping set because it's highly recommended with the whidden head, and then I am going to look at the primer cup to make sure it's seating the printers to the base of the primer cup.

 

[tarster]

In thinking about it, the reason some of the other powder measures are used is for their better shearing capabilities when using extruded powders. The Dillon measure doesn't do as well with powders like 7828. I don't use those types of powders so it isn't a big deal to me.

I had not considered that.. I normally run 3031, 4064, Varget, and now CFE223.. I have to say.. CFE223 flows so rediculously well in my press I would almost consider it a precision load.. measures either on or -.1gr in my 300 rounds of 223 I loaded the other day.. thats pretty good out of a progressive. For my pistol powders I throw unique, longshot, w296, WSF.. all of those are small flake and flow very nice through the press.

 

[BAMCIS]

Say what!!!!!!! ...........I actually ran the powder completely out of my dispenser one time on purpose and measured every other cartridge when it got below the baffle inside.. never changed more than .1 gr until the last 2 cartridges.. i couldn't even see the powder by that point.

Glad to see I wasn't the only one curious like this. I did the very same thing and got the very same results.