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Detaining an intruder

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by notazombie, Sep 22, 2013.

  1. notazombie

    notazombie Hillsboro Well-Known Member

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    I was checking the weather this morning when I noticed this headline on the sidebar. Deaf dog alerts owner to suspected burglar in Salem - KPTV - FOX 12. In the story the intruder accidentally cages himself in the garage. The homeowner grabs his gun and holds the guy until the police arrive to arrest him.
    So, my question is, are we within out rights to "detain" an intruder at gunpoint even if there is no imminent threat to personal safety (tweaker locked in the garage)? Could a defense attorney argue anything stupid like attempted murder or kidnapping against you in order to help his scumbag client beat the case or come against you civilly?
    I know the present public mindset is to hide and call 911, but I would prefer to see a criminal actually getting arrested and punished vs. simply filing a report with a vague description while hoping my belongings turn up at a pawn shop or on craigslist. What are our rights?
     
  2. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    In Oregon the only lawful reason to point a firearm at someone is for self defense.

    I would gladly argue that having a bad guy in my house without my permission rises to the level of a threat to my safety and well being. Now if the bad guy was turning to run out of my house then it would be hard to show a threat against my person (or some other ones person). And it is well accepted that a caged or cornered animal is a dangerous one.
     
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  3. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    If he has entered your home he is a threat to you and yours. Do what you need to do.
    People that are that brazen are capable of anything and you have a right to insure your family is safe as well as yourself.
     
  4. Kevinkris

    Kevinkris Aloha Well-Known Member

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    this is why i also have a steel baton. i dont know that i could shoot someone after issuing a threat to do so but i have no quarrel with giving someone some knots. getting some good zip ties could be a good idea but i think i would prefer holding them at gun point as opposed to physical restraints.

    ive never heard of anyone having charges pressed for detaining someone who is clearly committing a crime. it burns me to say it but Taku is dead on here. :laugh:
     
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  5. Misterbill

    Misterbill Yakima County, Washington New Member

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    I'd probably detain him if he wasn't going to run away, and sure as Heck if he's in my house he has a gun pointed at him. At that point, you're using "reasonable and necessary" force. But if he runs away, you can't shoot the guy. Your initial pointing of the gun was done in response to an intruder in your home, where ability, opportunity and jeopardy are generally all assumed to be present simply by him invading your domicile.

    That you continue to point the gun at him after he's surrendered I suppose a sleazy enough DA could use against you, but I don't think it would get past a grand jury or a jury trial and DA'a don't like to lose cases. I doubt you'd really get into trouble.

    This case though, appears to be in a detached garage. That's more like trespass/3rd degree burglary and could pose a greater risk of said sleazy DA. I love a few minutes away from the nearest cop getting here. 5 at most. Personally I'd stay safe in my house and call the cops.

    1. If it's a REALLY bad guy, I'm risking getting shot going outside.
    2. Once I leave the safety of my home, lots of very nasty things can happen, including me needing to shoot someone. It's just easier to let the cops deal with it. If I was way out in the boonies, different story, but you still can't shoot the guy for trespass or simple theft.
     
  6. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    There was a story like a year ago, up in the west hills of Portland where a ftard called 911 when a GSD didn't like him using his master's john.
     
  7. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    Hmmmmm You feeling ok ????????? :stretcher: That really hurt to say didn't it. :)
     
  8. fyrediver

    fyrediver Seattle Active Member

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    What was overlooked in this article is that the intruder pulled a knife and threatened the homeowner. That would have earned him his dirt nap. He did drop his knife when he saw the gun. Classic case of bringing a knife to a gun fight. Homeowner's lucky.
     
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  9. notazombie

    notazombie Hillsboro Well-Known Member

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    Hadn't heard the knife part. I would feel completely justified holding him at gunpoint since he wasn't as unarmed as the short article made it sound.
     
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  10. Koda

    Koda Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    Its my understanding that while not entirely unlawful in some scenarios, its really not a good idea to detain someone at gun point. If the criminal has an escape route and flees, there is nothing you can do. However if you can physically detain him then you might be justified to put him/her under citizens arrest.... (but maybe not a good idea having already presented a gun?)

    Keep in mind your not required to detain the criminal, so you don't have the same legal protection as LEO's should something go wrong with the detainment process. Your only expectation is to assure your immediate safety, which is your only legal protection.
     
  11. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie Vancouver Well-Known Member

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    I don't have the utmost confidence that it's going to go well when the boys in blue show up and I have a gun pointed at another human being. From what I understand, that's one of their least favorite scenarios. Showing up at a scene where people have firearms drawn, presents a conflict with their objective to get home safely at the end of the night. Are you sure that they are going to distinguish you as the good guy? Would you bet your life that communications on emergency channels are that good?

    I like to see the bad guy get caught, but I'm also the chief of security at my house, and surviving the bad guy, the cops, and the DA are my obligation to my family.
     
  12. Burt Gummer

    Burt Gummer Portland Completely Out of Ammo

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    I believe thousands of videos and stories will back up that you don't want to be holding a gun when the real thugs show up. You'll probably end up getting shot yourself.

    Better to just hit the remote for the garage door and say your goodbyes, a few threats thrown in for good measure. The worst the perp will get is a hand slap anyway. Involve the police in your life deliberately and you get what you deserve. Never call them. Never ask anything from them.
     
  13. M67

    M67 NW Oregon Active Member

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    In Columbia County, the Sheriffs Department is not accepting new prisoners in the County jail and they turned everyone loose, except for murders and Federal prisoners.

    Like Burt said, why bother to call the Leo's and jeopardize yourself? The less you have to do with LEO's, the better off you are!
     
  14. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    What the scenario boils down to is every situation is different, and until you enter into it, no one knows how you will react exactly, or how it will end. You can play out 50 scenarios and there will still always be one more you had not considered. Even the best mental training will be altered by adrenalin.
     
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  15. Riot

    Riot Benton County, Washington Well-Known Member

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    If you can shoot them, you can point a gun at them.

    If they commit a felony in your presence, you can detain them.


    Lastly,

    I wouldn't suggest "detaining" an intruder unless they saw the gun and got face first on the ground. You have no idea what their intent is (kidnap, rape, burglary, vandalism, etc.) or even how many intruders there are or what he/she is on. For them to not know or care if you're home in the first place should be red flag #1. Home invasions is one of those things where no DA wants to touch since you have an expectation of privacy and safety in your home. My suggestion is that if you know that the person in your home shouldn't be there (i.e. it's not a relative or drunk friend that grabbed your hide-a-key and forgot to call first) then I would put bullets in them until they were face down on the ground. My family's safety comes before being the next kung-fu legend with some tweeker at 4am in my living room.

    There is no "shotgun racking", no warnings of "freeze, dirt bag!" If a bad guy is in my home while I am home they better be able to move faster than a .40 S&W.
     
  16. notazombie

    notazombie Hillsboro Well-Known Member

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    The "dead men tell no tales" approach?

    I wholeheartedly agree that interaction with police should be kept to an absolute minimum. The last thing I want is some trigger happy cowboys showing up to my house if I have a gun in my hand but the idea of just letting an intruder leave just rubs me wrong. By that logic, what's to stop me from shopping for a new laptop or TV in your living room?
     
  17. Burt Gummer

    Burt Gummer Portland Completely Out of Ammo

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    I didn't say you shouldn't use whatever option YOU have to deal with it. I wouldn't list such scenarios on an open forum :devil:

    Just don't involve the police unless you have to do it. For instance, you are forced to shoot someone and the whole neighborhood hears the shot at 3am LOL.

    Never, ever, call the police unless you absolutely have no choice. They are not there to serve, help, or protect you. They are there to look for opportunities to screw up people's lives; yours included.

    Inviting the man into your life is more foolhardy that asking that intruder back inside for chips and beer.
     
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  18. Steve M

    Steve M Beaverton, OR Well-Known Member

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    A firearm was used in a good way so the media turns it into a story about a dog. They wouldn't even have run the story but it was either that or the DC shooting so they went with the story less damaging to their agenda.
     
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  19. osterr1999

    osterr1999 Silverton, OR Active Member

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    You can arrest someone as a citizen. See the Oregon Revised Statute below.

    133.225 Arrest by private person. (1) A private person may arrest another person for any crime committed in the presence of the private person if the private person has probable cause to believe the arrested person committed the crime. A private person making such an arrest shall, without unnecessary delay, take the arrested person before a magistrate or deliver the arrested person to a peace officer.

    (2) In order to make the arrest a private person may use physical force as is justifiable under ORS 161.255. [1973 c.836 §74]
     
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  20. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie Vancouver Well-Known Member

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    "Oh good! you've placed a bad guy under citizens arrest using justifiable force per ORS 161.255. [1973 c.836 §74] and delivered him police station, Well Done Citizen".

    Said no Policeman ever.

    Sounds like something out of the George Zimmerman playbook. Will you write a book and do network interviews after you get beaten, shot, imprisoned, charged with federal crimes and sued?