Cops need good reason to ask if you have a gun

[DuneHopper]

I think that if there was a statistic 95% of all police go on to become police because they want to protect and to make a difference. The minute one is hired depending where you are at that begins to change. They are quickly taught you are not here to protect or serve. You are here to make sure the integrity of the law stays intact. And why that is all fine and good after awhile that 95% drops to about 65% of Cop keeping their own moral compass in check. I remember going thru police training back in 1982. Back then your protected the public. Now its about protecting the officers and the law. If you see police helping and interacting to make where you live a better place? Its because they chose to be the 65% that cares about the people they chose to protect. Dynamics have changed, on how police are told to view themselves are enforcers not protectors.

 

[Phather]

Thank you for letting me know that you think all cops hate all free persons...I'm going for the NWFA record ignore list.

As for the rest of this discussion...

Police can ask you virtually anything they want.

"Is this your car?"
"Are these your drugs?"
"Do you have any firearms on you?"

You have the right to remain silent and only HAVE to give them your full name and date of birth (and only on official encounters). I will be extremely surprised if this current ruling holds and isn't reversed.


Also- on a last note...some police have been getting away with violating our rights for a loooong time. Only recently (with the advancements in technology and public disclosures) have they come to light.

Just to clarify, in WA, you only HAVE to give your full name and date of birth if you are pulled over for a traffic violation. You don't have an obligation to identify yourself outside of traffic stops. However, if you decide to give a false name, that is a crime, so it is better to just not say anything if you don't want to give your name.

 

[IheartSig]

It's funny to me that there are so many cop haters on this forum. Also a lot of short sided individuals that don't seem to have a concept of how the world actually works. It's all well and good to thump your chest and say things like "I handle my own problems", but what about all the people who really need the help? What about the old lady who wants to walk to the store un molested? What about the kids that have a right to play on the play ground without being offered drugs or kidnapped?

Some people can't protect themselves, others step up to fill that void. Its selfish and ignorant of you to assume that because you "don't need cops" no one else does. After all, unless you are putting on a cape and outfit, going out and fighting the nefarious evil every day, you should probably take your advise, mind your business and stay out of societies way instead of bubbleguming about it because you "don't like cops".

We need idiots bragging about how they take the law into their own hands and have no use for societies rules, just as much as we need bad cops. Not at all.

 

[DuneHopper]

^^^^^^^^ I don't hate cops my posts are all positive and realistic.
Gees after all I was one LOL . But I never cared what people felt,
I just did what I could and kept my moral compass in check each day.

 

[IheartSig]

^^^^^^^^ I don't hate cops my posts are all positive and realistic.
Gees after all I was one LOL . But I never cared what people felt,
I just did what I could and kept my moral compass in check each day.

No worries DuneHopper, the shoe fits better on others feet and they know who they are. At the end of the day we all have to watch our compass, cops or otherwise.

 

[DuneHopper]

Boy this is true for sure.

 

[BearSlayer338]

We don't need cops,they don't do anything a group of regular civilians can't do.
When you need cops they are minutes away when seconds count,we are responsible for our own safety.

Civilizations have been fine throughout history without cops,we didn't need them then and we don't need them now.

 

[DuneHopper]

We don't need cops,they don't do anything a group of regular civilians can't do. When you need cops they are minutes away when seconds count,we are responsible for our own safety.
Civilizations have been fine throughout history without cops,we didn't need them then and we don't need them now.

BearSlayer, nothing could be further then the truth. Take a city say one of 150,ooo people do you know there are mostly likely less then 30-40 police on duty at any given time in a city that size? The illusion that police are doing something is why it works. However wait until a national disaster and all these people turn into animals. Why ? because people know that the police could be anywhere anytime its how you and I get speeding tickets wrong place wrong time. However people know in a disaster no one can protect anyone so the bad guys capitalize on it. A police force only works when people respect and fear the law, in a disaster many law abiding turn in
to animals. If you had citizen taking care of the law there would be a death on every corner all day long. Cops may not be the answer to all the needs of a society however without that stability it would be Chaos and is seen when it is absent in most all disasters.

 

[BearSlayer338]

BearSlayer, nothing could be further then the truth. Take a city say one of 150,ooo people do you know there are mostly likely less then 30-40 police on duty at any given time in a city that size? The illusion that police are doing something is why it works. However wait until a national disaster and all these people turn into animals. Why ? because people know that the police could be anywhere anytime its how you and I get speeding tickets wrong place wrong time. However people know in a disaster no one can protect anyone so the bad guys capitalize on it. A police force only works when people respect and fear the law, in a disaster many law abiding turn in
to animals. If you had citizen taking care of the law there would be a death on every corner all day long. Cops may not be the answer to all the needs of a society however without that stability it would be Chaos and is seen when it is absent in most all disasters.

BS
Police don't enhance our quality of life and are completely unnecessary, if there is huge disaster then call in the National Guard or Army.Not to mention cops are rarely if ever held accountable for their actions,they need to held to higher standard and when one commits a murder they should be put to death.

 

[DuneHopper]

BS
Police don't enhance our quality of life and are completely unnecessary, if there is huge disaster then call in the National Guard or Army.Not to mention cops are rarely if ever held accountable for their actions,they need to held to higher standard and when one commits a murder they should be put to death.

Hi there, you keep saying the same thing, yet I see nothing you are basing this idea on ?
History going back 5000+ years shows exactly what I quoted. In fact near every past democracy
had such a presence. Happy to debate this with you, but you have to say more then " cause I said "
not going to cut it. Not sure anyone said they shouldn't be held accountable or held to a high standard.
The point you seemed to be saying and I responded to is there is no need for police and I quoted facts.
I am simply giving you the opportunity to back this up with facts not conjecture.

 

[IheartSig]

We don't need cops,they don't do anything a group of regular civilians can't do.
When you need cops they are minutes away when seconds count,we are responsible for our own safety.

Civilizations have been fine throughout history without cops,we didn't need them then and we don't need them now.

What magical fairy tale world are you talking about? As far back as ancient China they had "police forces" or prefects as they were called. In ancient Greece the romans had magistrates... The list goes on. Every civilization that grew beyond a cave or 3 huts has had law enforcement of one form or another

 

[CLT65]

IheartSig and DuneHopper, thank you for your well reasoned posts. Bearslayer, I can see that some people have their minds made up and don't want to be bothered with reality. Too bad.

After an honest, law-abiding family member nearly had his life ruined by a bad cop decades ago (wrong place, wrong time thing), I had a similar attitude about cops. It seemed like all they really did was harass the honest public. It took me many years to work through my ideas on law enforcement.

My perspective really started to change when my friend Morris (the one who died in the line of duty) told me how naive I was. I was raised in a clean-cut, honest, law-abiding home on the farm by honest, law abiding folks. I was rarely or minimally exposed to the other side of humanity. Substance abuse, infidelity, porn, theft, violence and the like didn't exist much in my little world. I knew this other depraved world existed, but it must be somewhere else; the big city maybe. (How naive I was!)

He said that people who lived like me don't have a clue as to the type of world cops deal with every single day. The see the seedy, dirty, raunchy underbelly of society day in and day out, people who lie, cheat, and steal as a way of life. Nearly everyone they deal with lies to them and hates them. It's easy to get jaded and start treating everyone like a suspect unless you know them personally. It's easy to get a "cop attitude", to forget about helping people because people are bad, and just focus on being an enforcer, loyal only to your brothers in blue: "The largest street gang in the country" according to another cop acquaintance.

Knowing this, I now have a tremendous respect for the good ones. They are out there, the guys who risk their own safety with a good attitude because they actually do want to help their communities. Those guys deserve our support.

If your world is that "seedy underbelly of society", and you're comfortable with a certain level of crime, dishonesty, raunch, drugs-hookers-and seamy nitelife, then for one I think you have a warped view of freedom, and for another I can see why you might not like cops. They're just there to "harass you and cramp your style", since a lot of your world involves things that are not legal.

If you live in a world a little closer to mine, please don't hate cops. Sure there are jerks out there, but thank the good ones. I don't want to deal with the stuff they deal with every day.

My buddy Sam is a cop. I've known him his whole life, and he's a good man- honest and ethical. He cares about people and wants to make a difference. (Are you on here Sam? Sorry, don't mean to call you out if you are.) It made me sad, one of the things he told me when he was a rookie- "I'm getting used to people flipping me off as I drive by, just because of the uniform and patrol car."

If you're one of those people who will flip off a cop just because he's a cop, then you are a "bubblegum" of the highest order, and I have no use for you.

 

[CLT65]

We don't need cops,they don't do anything a group of regular civilians can't do.

As bad as some of the most egregious examples of police misbehavior are, I think the current system is much better than "mob justice".

 

[IheartSig]

IheartSig and DuneHopper, thank you for your well reasoned posts. Bearslayer, I can see that some people have their minds made up and don't want to be bothered with reality. Too bad.

After an honest, law-abiding family member nearly had his life ruined by a bad cop decades ago (wrong place, wrong time thing), I had a similar attitude about cops. It seemed like all they really did was harass the honest public. It took me many years to work through my ideas on law enforcement.

My perspective really started to change when my friend Morris (the one who died in the line of duty) told me how naive I was. I was raised in a clean-cut, honest, law-abiding home on the farm by honest, law abiding folks. I was rarely or minimally exposed to the other side of humanity. Substance abuse, infidelity, porn, theft, violence and the like didn't exist much in my little world. I knew this other depraved world existed, but it must be somewhere else; the big city maybe. (How naive I was!)

He said that people who lived like me don't have a clue as to the type of world cops deal with every single day. The see the seedy, dirty, raunchy underbelly of society day in and day out, people who lie, cheat, and steal as a way of life. Nearly everyone they deal with lies to them and hates them. It's easy to get jaded and start treating everyone like a suspect unless you know them personally. It's easy to get a "cop attitude", to forget about helping people because people are bad, and just focus on being an enforcer, loyal only to your brothers in blue: "The largest street gang in the country" according to another cop acquaintance.

Knowing this, I now have a tremendous respect for the good ones. They are out there, the guys who risk their own safety with a good attitude because they actually do want to help their communities. Those guys deserve our support.

If your world is that "seedy underbelly of society", and you're comfortable with a certain level of crime, dishonesty, raunch, drugs-hookers-and seamy nitelife, then for one I think you have a warped view of freedom, and for another I can see why you might not like cops. They're just there to "harass you and cramp your style", since a lot of your world involves things that are not legal.

If you live in a world a little closer to mine, please don't hate cops. Sure there are jerks out there, but thank the good ones. I don't want to deal with the stuff they deal with every day.

My buddy Sam is a cop. I've known him his whole life, and he's a good man- honest and ethical. He cares about people and wants to make a difference. (Are you on here Sam? Sorry, don't mean to call you out if you are.) It made me sad, one of the things he told me when he was a rookie- "I'm getting used to people flipping me off as I drive by, just because of the uniform and patrol car."

If you're one of those people who will flip off a cop just because he's a cop, then you are a "bubblegum" of the highest order, and I have no use for you.

That was a great post Sir. A perspective that is pretty accurate and often forgotten. What's Nietzschie say?

"If you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you"?

 

[No_Regerts]

I've been in law enforcement for ten years now. It's an incredibly rewarding job on most days. These are the days we get a chance to give a child some stickers, or maybe help someone change a tire. Some days its the interview you conduct with a rape victim that helps add context to the physical evidence and psych reports that help you close a case on a predator.

The days where we serve felony warrants, try to deescalate people who are at the end of their rope, find the knife hidden up a sleeve after a foot chase, etc. These aren't the rewarding days. You literally feel sick to your stomach once the adrenaline dies down. You're drained. You don't explain It to your wife because you don't want her to worry and you don't want to lie and say you had a good day at work.

I'm paid to enforce the law. I believe in the law and its purpose. It's there so the innocent and the weak aren't victimized and kept from enjoying their God-given rights. It's not always black and white and you have discretion. I've seen officers refuse to use it and and apply it too strictly. Not every encounter has to be an arrest to affect change. Sometimes a reminder and a warning goes way farther.

I've also seen complacency and the desire to be a nice guy get people killed. The contact at the end of your shift that tugs at your gut and you know something is off but you dont develop the situation because you really want to get home to your family. That guy drives off an hits a child in a crosswalk or kills his ex-girlfriend. A public records request shows you could have done something, but you didn't.

I did sign up for the job. I know its my calling and I believe I am good at what I do. Every day presents new challenges and I like being a part of solving problems.

I've never had to shoot anyone. I've been in more than a few scuffles. I'm known as someone who doesn't excite quickly but I am decisive. I constantly evaluate myself on my ability to do my work and promise I'll hang it up the day I can't.

 

[Mikej]

I thank you for your service to the public! I'm one of those who have the utmost respect for the badge and the job.

MikeJ

 

[Norm0931]

I find it ironic that most gun owners on the interwebz tend to jump all over law enforcement because they see that bottom 10% of bad ones in the media. This is EXACTLY what the antis do with gun owners. Either you acknowledge that a small percentage of a group does not represent the whole or you acknowledge all gun owners are murders who haven't been caught yet. Otherwise, you are a hypocrit.

 

[WillametteWill]

I find it ironic that most gun owners on the interwebz tend to jump all over law enforcement because they see that bottom 10% of bad ones in the media. This is EXACTLY what the antis do with gun owners. Either you acknowledge that a small percentage of a group does not represent the whole or you acknowledge all gun owners are murders who haven't been caught yet. Otherwise, you are a hypocrit.

Thanks for the great example of intellectual honesty at work. I will give the benefit of the doubt and believe it's many gun owner, not most, but completely agree with your point.

 

[DuneHopper]

I've been in law enforcement for ten years now. It's an incredibly rewarding job on most days. These are the days we get a chance to give a child a Jr. Deputy badge or some stickers, or maybe help someone change a tire. Some days its the interview you conduct with a rape victim that helps add context to the physical evidence and psych reports that help you close a case on a predator..

Great message and very true.
I was told when going thru the academy back in 1980, the public is not your enemy, they are also not your friends act accordingly. I am alive today using these simple words.

 

[bnsaibum]

I find it ironic that most gun owners on the interwebz tend to jump all over law enforcement because they see that bottom 10% of bad ones in the media. This is EXACTLY what the antis do with gun owners. Either you acknowledge that a small percentage of a group does not represent the whole or you acknowledge all gun owners are murders who haven't been caught yet. Otherwise, you are a hypocrit.

Excellent point, except when the 'thin blue line' acts to protect those of the bottom 10%.

Can the same be said about most gun owners and the gun owning bottom 10%?