Concealed permit ,should a gun safety course be mandatory??

[Nwcid]

I'm okay with training being required if government can show evidence of such requirement having a positive effect on public safety. That is they have to demonstrate compelling interest in requiring training.

That is still adding a condition to a right. What if the gov said you needed to take a class about religion prior to you choosing a religion?

Also, while I could probably agree permits should not be required, I would find it useful for permits to be issued anyway (for a minimal fee), to help with unrolling Law Enforcement encounters in timely manner.

Not sure what that means so I can not comment.

By the way, there is that another thread about TN resident being arrested for gun possession in NYC. Regardless of your thoughts on NYC laws (there will always be some places off-limits for firearms possession even in gun-friendly states), do you guys think it could have been avoided with proper training in TN ?

That person WILLINGLY CHOSE NOT KNOW the where he was going. No amount of gov control would change that. This is about personal responsibility not "what can the gov do for you". I know when I do new stuff (not just guns) I check the laws that are related to that activity.

 

[fd15k]

That is still adding a condition to a right. What if the gov said you needed to take a class about religion prior to you choosing a religion?

None of your rights are unlimited. From the constitutional law standpoint we have what's called "strict scrutiny". What that means is that even fundamental rights are subject to certain regulation when compelling government interest is present. Burden of proof, though, is on the government.

Not sure what that means so I can not comment.

I meant it would be useful for me to have some form of ID that can instantly demonstrate I am a law-abiding citizen, in otherwise not a clear cut situation. Just think of all those stories with guys handing their CHL's during traffic stops and getting away with warnings instead of tickets.

That person WILLINGLY CHOSE NOT KNOW the where he was going. No amount of gov control would change that. This is about personal responsibility not "what can the gov do for you". I know when I do new stuff (not just guns) I check the laws that are related to that activity.

It depends on the perspective. Should I research any possible life situation, so I may not get in any kind of legal trouble ? That's unrealistic, even lawyers have specializations. Does the government (TN state government in this case) have an obligation to keep their citizens out of trouble ? They do. Is it too much of inconvenience for a person to get training ? Well, it's arguable and it depends. Is there a benefit even for well-trained and experienced persons (in any field) to review the basics once in a while ? That's a known fact. I can go on forever, but like I said - whenever something is to be mandated, there has to be a good reason for that.

 

[oldbrass]

I despise the idea of more regulation and my answer is NO course required,this topic came up in a heated debate I was In and wanted a consensus..I don`t think you should need a permit period to exercise your 2nd A rights. Its just another tax IMO

 

[Nwcid]

None of your rights are unlimited. From the constitutional law standpoint we have what's called "strict scrutiny". What that means is that even fundamental rights are subject to certain regulation when compelling government interest is present. Burden of proof, though, is on the government.

So gov's way of trying to take away our rights.....

I meant it would be useful for me to have some form of ID that can instantly demonstrate I am a law-abiding citizen, in otherwise not a clear cut situation. Just think of all those stories with guys handing their CHL's during traffic stops and getting away with warnings instead of tickets.

Just because you have a CHL does not instantly mean you are a "good guy" to a cop. While it may ease the situation a bit that does not instantly mean you are in the right. It just means that when you got your CHL you passed a background check.

I have had a permit for over 15 years now. I have never voluntarily showed an LEO my permit and have gotten out of tickets more then 75% of the time. I think in all the years I have been asked 1 time to show my permit, but have been asked if I have one several times.

It depends on the perspective. Should I research any possible life situation, so I may not get in any kind of legal trouble ? That's unrealistic, even lawyers have specializations. Does the government (TN state government in this case) have an obligation to keep their citizens out of trouble ? They do. Is it too much of inconvenience for a person to get training ? Well, it's arguable and it depends. Is there a benefit even for well-trained and experienced persons (in any field) to review the basics once in a while ? That's a known fact. I can go on forever, but like I said - whenever something is to be mandated, there has to be a good reason for that.

You just said that it is unrealistic to research life situation, yet you advocate the gov should tell you about all life situations that can lead you to trouble...... I dont understand.

So are you saying that TN is responsible for this guys trouble? So had TN required a class you would have to assume that it would have to cover ALL state(s) laws plus all Federal laws. Then the state would have to test the student to make sure they KNOW and will remember all those laws since the state "had the obligation to keep their citizens safe". Of course then if the person gets in trouble they can deny any personal responsibility since he did what the state said.

Then of course the state needs to be involved in all parts of your life where you might get in trouble too.........

 

[fd15k]

So gov's way of trying to take away our rights.....

It has been like that from the day one, I'm afraid.

Just because you have a CHL does not instantly mean you are a "good guy" to a cop. While it may ease the situation a bit that does not instantly mean you are in the right. It just means that when you got your CHL you passed a background check.

Correct, but we're going for majority of cases, especially when gun possession is questioned.

You just said that it is unrealistic to research life situation, yet you advocate the gov should tell you about all life situations that can lead you to trouble...... I dont understand.

So are you saying that TN is responsible for this guys trouble? So had TN required a class you would have to assume that it would have to cover ALL state(s) laws plus all Federal laws. Then the state would have to test the student to make sure they KNOW and will remember all those laws since the state "had the obligation to keep their citizens safe". Of course then if the person gets in trouble they can deny any personal responsibility since he did what the state said.

Then of course the state needs to be involved in all parts of your life where you might get in trouble too.........

I know my whole statement was a bit of a stretch. But I just wanted to show it's not clear-cut.

 

[Nwcid]

Fair enough

 

[VW_Factor]

We shoudn't have to "get permission with a permit" to exercise our rights to begin with.. Leading too..

Why doesn't everyone show their kids how to operate and respect firearms?

 

[fd15k]

Why doesn't everyone show their kids how to operate and respect firearms?

Why doesn't everybody vote Republican ?

 

[VW_Factor]

Why doesn't everybody vote Republican ?

You are one of those people that vote for someone because they call themselves a certain name eh?

No, I wouldn't recommend doing that either.

Edit : I mention this, because that NDAA thing. The only person who represents Oregon and voted Aye, was a republican. All the dems representing Oregon returned a Nay. (Greg Walden - R)

 

[fd15k]

You are one of those people that vote for someone because they call themselves a certain name eh?

Absolutely not. But the answer to that question would likely match the one for your question - because not everybody cares about or prioritizes the same things.

 

[VW_Factor]

I would equate something like that to.. Did your parents ever show you how to properly use a wrench or screwdriver?

mmhmm.

About like that.

 

[fd15k]

Did your parents ever show you how to properly use a wrench or screwdriver?

No

 

[fuhr52]

I will vote for the one that best supports my political views. Most of the time that happens to be republican but not always. Too often it ends up being the one I perceive as the lesser of two evils.

 

[darkminstrel]

That is still adding a condition to a right. What if the gov said you needed to take a class about religion prior to you choosing a religion?

90% of The South would cease to exist.

 

[Asp]

Why doesn't everybody vote Republican ?

Because if that worked we'd have a utopia.
Same thing with democrats, even if everyone voted that way, it would not be a utopia.

What we have works. It's not the best, and it can be improved.
This time, cheap Chinese goods aren't going to cut it.

 

[kev1]

Seems to me there are way to many new laws needed. From guns to light bulbs. yet the abusers dont obey the laws to begin with. It only hurts the rest of us. I wish the laws in place would be enforced with a vengence before more added. seems to become a revenue source otherwise. my 2 cents.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

I wish the laws in place would be enforced with a vengence before more added.

I wish for every new law they pass, 2 existing laws must be repealed. Might make them think a little harder about passing all the new garbage they do every year. We have, what, over 20k gun laws in the country now? And the anti's want MORE? Anything you can do with a gun that causes harm to another person or property is already illegal.

 

[PBinWA]

At one class I attended I saw several people pointing "unloaded" (I didn't see them checking just assuming) guns at other attendees and other unsafe practices. These people still got the little certificate.

Can't you get the Oregon course online these days?

My main point being that the training requirement is pretty much a joke and isn't going to stop idiots from being idiots.

No permits required and teach gun safety in the public schools.

 

[mjbskwim]

From a moral perspective, I find the notion obscene. I'll get behind mandated state approved training as soon as everyone in the country has to get mandated state-approved training to vote, write a letter to the editor, post to an internet forum or have children.

I CAN get behind the training before having children one.

 

[Gunner3456]

I have no formal training. I simply grew up with a family and friends who loved guns and was taught firearms use and safety all my life. Do you think those men would put up with me doing something unsafe around them while hunting or around the campfire? I got my butt chewed more than once. I also got taught how to shoot and how to reload.

I agree. 2A should be my right to own and carry, and it's already "infringed." It says nothing about classes.

What we really need is another law. NOT.