Coffee

[One-Eyed Ross]

Concealed carry was considered an unsavory act in most places until sometime in the last century...(after 1901). Not sure what changed, or when...

 

[GunnyG]

Concealed carry was considered an unsavory act in most places until sometime in the last century...(after 1901). Not sure what changed, or when...

<broken link removed>
A Short History of Concealed Handgun Permits

Laws prohibiting concealed carrying of handguns without a permit are, in most of the United States, relatively recent. While some statutes from before the Civil War did address concealed carrying, they did so by outlawing it entirely, rather than by setting up a system whereby concealed carrying would be lawful only with a permit. These antebellum statutes usually had no exemptions for sheriffs or other peace officers, even when on duty. [1] During the 1920s and 1930s many states adopted "A Uniform Act to Regulate the Sale and Possession of Firearms." This model law, adopted by the National Conference of Commissioners on Uniform State Laws and supported by the National Rifle Association, prohibited unlicensed concealed carry.

Recognizing that there were circumstances when at least some civilians would have a legitimate need for concealed carry of a handgun, most states adopted provisions allowing a sheriff, police chief or judge to issue concealed handgun permits. Significantly, such statutes were broadly discretionary; while the law might specify certain minimum standards for obtaining a permit, the decision whether a permit should be issued was not regulated by express statutory standards. [2]

In some parts of the United States, concealed handgun permit statutes were passed for frankly racist reasons, as a method of prohibiting Blacks from carrying arms. "The statute was never intended to be applied to the white population and in practice has never been so applied," in the words of a Florida Supreme Court Justice. [3]

While the motivations behind California's concealed handgun statute are not as clearly understood, the effect has been similar. California's legislative research body studied the issue in 1986 and concluded: "The overwhelming majority of permit holders are white males." [4] Because so many victims of violent crime are female or non-white, the discrimination in granting of carry permits is especially hard to justify. [5]

Not every state adopted the Uniform Act. Some states had already enacted their own statutes. [6] Vermont adopted no statute prohibiting concealed carry of handguns, at least partly because of the Vermont Supreme Court's expansive reading of the Vermont Constitution's protections in State v. Rosenthal (1903). [7] Today, Vermont still has no laws prohibiting or regulating concealed carry, except "with the intent or avowed purpose of injuring a fellow man..." [8]..."

 

[rick benjamin]

Thanks Gunny, nice history lesson.

I wrote to Corporate and thanked them for their civic mindedness.
Got a nice note back:

"Hello Rick,
I just finished reading your email and appreciate you taking the time to share your concerns with us.
Thank you for your feedback regarding Starbucks' policy on open carry laws.
At Starbucks, we deeply respect the views of our customers and recognize that there is significant and genuine passion surrounding the issue of open carry weapons laws. We comply with local laws and statutes in the communities we serve. Our long-standing approach to this issue remains unchanged and we abide by the laws that permit open carry in 43 U.S. states. Where these laws don't exist, openly carrying weapons in our stores is prohibited.
As the public debate around this issue continues, we encourage customers and advocacy groups from both sides to share their input with their public officials. We are extremely sensitive to the issue of gun violence in our society and believe that supporting local laws is the right way for us to ensure a safe environment for both partners and customers.
Thanks again for writing us. If you ever have any questions or concerns in the future, please don't hesitate to get in touch.
Sincerely,
Kyla P
customer service"

I think;
Starbucks sells coffee, their focus.
Prefers to remain neutral and apolitical.
Unhappy with Heidi the Moonbat's political statement at their expense.
Prefer gun toters keep their guns hidden, to not concern nervous folks.
Want employees, customers safe and welcome, sell and buy coffee.
and, (being a jucy robbery target) worry about gun violence.

hermannr;
Explain why I "need to stop". What am I missing here in Oregon?
May or may not carry camouflaged. Nobody knows, stealth is what stealth is.
My hands don't perspire and shake with fear, my eyes aren't downcast or shifty (Heidi, you there?).
I don't make a public specticle to send a message. That's lace-pantie bubblegum.
I have some $2 bills for the tip jar (I suspect Starbucks knows zactly the meaning of $2 on Saturday).
Will politely thank the Baristas for a tall black (no room) and yes, please warm the blueberry scone.
Will wear my mouse and the maze to the cheese shirt. Baristas like it, cute. Mouse carries a chainsaw.

I plan for the worst, hope for the best.
I really am equipped, weary of smartie-pants course adjusters.
Marine (six basic attack moves...carry abdominal trauma dressing n bandaid)
ex Oregon volunteer firefighter (broad spectrum training)
ex Oregon EMT (picked up pieces for the ME, smelled death)

Sincerely
Rick

 

[hermannr]

Thanks Gunny, nice history lesson.hermannr;
You might like to explain why I "need to stop"
I may or may not carry camoflaged. Nobody knows for sure, stealth is what stealth is.
Unlike Heidi the Moonbat, my hands don't perspire and shake with fear, my eyes aren't downcast or shifty.
I don't make a public specticle to send a message. That's lace-pantie bubblegum.
I have some $2 bills for the tip jar (I suspect they know the meaning of $2 on Saturday).
I will politely thank the Baristas for my tall black (no room) and yes, I would like that blueberry scone warmed.

I wrote to Corporate and thanked them for their civic mindedness.
Got a nice note back:

Hello Rick,


I just finished reading your email and appreciate you taking the time to share your concerns with us.

Thank you for your feedback regarding Starbucks' policy on open carry laws.
At Starbucks, we deeply respect the views of our customers and recognize that there is significant and genuine passion surrounding the issue of open carry weapons laws. We comply with local laws and statutes in the communities we serve. Our long-standing approach to this issue remains unchanged and we abide by the laws that permit open carry in 43 U.S. states. Where these laws don't exist, openly carrying weapons in our stores is prohibited.
As the public debate around this issue continues, we encourage customers and advocacy groups from both sides to share their input with their public officials. We are extremely sensitive to the issue of gun violence in our society and believe that supporting local laws is the right way for us to ensure a safe environment for both partners and customers.


Thanks again for writing us. If you ever have any questions or concerns in the future, please don't hesitate to get in touch.
Sincerely,
Kyla P
customer service

These lines are signifigent.
We are extremely sensitive to the issue of gun violence in our society
and we believe that supporting local laws is the right way for us to ensure a safe environment for both partners and customers.

worried about gun violence, want to keep employees and customers safe and welcome.
Control freaks worry about what other folks might do or say.
I plan for the worst, and hope for the best.

I really am equipped
Marine
Volunteer firefighter
EMT

Sincerely
Rick

Quote from a paper by one of the owners of OCDO as printed in USNews and World Report: link:

<broken link removed>

The 2006 FBI study "Violent Encounters: A Study of Felonious Assaults on Our Nation's Law Enforcement Officers" by Anthony Pinizzotto revealed that criminals carefully conceal their firearms, and they eschew the use of holsters. In layman's terms, this report tells us that, statistically speaking, citizens who are openly wearing a properly holstered handgun and are willing to subject themselves to the intense public and law enforcement scrutiny that open carry brings with it are not criminals.

 

[thereddog]

Peets coffee...

I will never ever have another drop of it.

I am surprised at the response for a company merely following the laws in place (Starbucks.)
I am glad, but also feel kind of deflated that it has come to coffee house wars..


Maybe I need to have more bean juice?

Maybe if I could charge $4.00 for a cup of bean juice I'd understand the economics of it all a little better.

 

[rick benjamin]

Quote from a paper by one of the owners of OCDO as printed in USNews and World Report: link:

<broken link removed>

The 2006 FBI study "Violent Encounters: A Study of Felonious Assaults on Our Nation's Law Enforcement Officers" by Anthony Pinizzotto revealed that criminals carefully conceal their firearms, and they eschew the use of holsters. In layman's terms, this report tells us that, statistically speaking, citizens who are openly wearing a properly holstered handgun and are willing to subject themselves to the intense public and law enforcement scrutiny that open carry brings with it are not criminals.

Thanks for your clarification.

 

[biggie24420]

I think I will OC today at a local Starbucks.... probably the one across the street from the Beaverton Police station, next to the Fred Meyer.... or I might be in the mood to piss off some trendies downtown and I will go to the Pioneer square Starbucks lol. I can just see PPS security at the square getting phone happy on me lol. I hope I don't run into any ignorant cops.

OH yeah, I have a valid CHL :winkkiss:

 

[tim007]

please do not opencarry where opencarry is not allowed per city laws ...

 

[biggie24420]

please do not opencarry where opencarry is not allowed per city laws ...

That only applies to folks without a CHL. If one has a valid CHL, any city or county laws prohibiting one from OC will not apply. CHL holders are immune from such ordinances.

 

[tim007]

That only applies to folks without a CHL. If one has a valid CHL, any city or county laws prohibiting one from OC, will not apply. We the CHL holders are immune from such "laws" because the CHL is State .....

perfect

 

[timac]

Starbucks endorsed Obunghole for a second term, are you people for real. The irony of this boycott and support of Starbucks is dumbfounding.

 

[biggie24420]

That only applies to folks without a CHL. If one has a valid CHL, any city or county laws prohibiting one from OC will not apply. CHL holders are immune from such ordinances.

This is what I was trying to say

166.173¹
Authority of city or county to regulate possession of loaded firearms in public places
(1) A city or county may adopt ordinances to regulate, restrict or prohibit the possession of loaded firearms in public places as defined in ORS 161.015 (General definitions).
(2) Ordinances adopted under subsection (1) of this section do not apply to or affect:
(a) A law enforcement officer in the performance of official duty.
(b) A member of the military in the performance of official duty.
(c) A person licensed to carry a concealed handgun.
(d) A person authorized to possess a loaded firearm while in or on a public building or court facility under ORS 166.370 (Possession of firearm or dangerous weapon in public building or court facility).
(e) An employee of the United States Department of Agriculture, acting within the scope of employment, who possesses a loaded firearm in the course of the lawful taking of wildlife. [1995 s.s. c.1 §4; 1999 c.782 §8; 2009 c.556 §3]

 

[GunnyG]

Starbucks endorsed Obunghole for a second term, are you people for real. The irony of this boycott and support of Starbucks is dumbfounding.

Which businesses don't?

 

[Joe Link]

Was at the SB in downtown St. Johns this morning, my first time OC'ing outside of an OC meet (of which I've been only once). I wasn't anticipating any problems, and there weren't any, but I was surprised at my level of anxiety. I'll have to do this more often to get over it, I suppose.

 

[renfield]

you don't have to buy coffee, you could try on of their baked goods.. i don't know if they are any good, but people seem to like them.

I make better scones than Starbucks, which isn't really that difficult. The baked goods at Grand Central Bakery, are better than anything you'll find at Starbucks, Peets, or any of the other corporate owned coffee shops, and you still get free refills on coffee. Grand Central Bakery are also family owned.

 

[deen_ad]

I make better scones than Starbucks, which isn't really that difficult. The baked goods at Grand Central Bakery, are better than anything you'll find at Starbucks, Peets, or any of the other corporate owned coffee shops, and you still get free refills on coffee. Grand Central Bakery are also family owned.

But do they allow open carry?



Deen
NRA Life Member, Benefactor Level
"Defender of Freedom" award
Second Amendment Foundation Member
Washington Arms Collectors Member
Arms Collectors of SW Washington Member

"Having a gun is like a parachute, if you need one and don't have it you may never need it again"

 

[renfield]

But do they allow open carry?



Deen
NRA Life Member, Benefactor Level
"Defender of Freedom" award
Second Amendment Foundation Member
Washington Arms Collectors Member
Arms Collectors of SW Washington Member

"Having a gun is like a parachute, if you need one and don't have it you may never need it again"

You could call and ask them, the location in NE Portland is next to an elementary school, and frequented by local PD they might not like it for that reason. They also have the best coffee cake of all their locations, I travel from Beaverton just for their coffee cake.

This is no judgement on you or anyone else but I judge businesses on their quality and service, not their politics. All Starbucks do is acknowledge that the law allows people to open carry, and they allow people to do so on their premises because there is a law that says they can. I'd bet money that they don't support open carry, or concealed carry. All any business cares about is making money. Sending sanitized emails (that are the e-equivalent to a pat on the head) to grateful customers, who frequent their premises because Starbucks allow them to practice their right is a joke on us. Not to mention the fact that corporations like Starbucks crush family owned businesses out of existence.

 

[Kable]

I did my part I bought my wife and I Starbucks today (although we go every weekend so I'll have to go again in the afternoon) and was carrying concealed. I don't have a good open carry holster just my supertuck and I don't like tucking my shirts in anyway so no open carry for me.

 

[hermannr]

please do not opencarry where opencarry is not allowed per city laws ...

I see you do not understand...You may OC or CC if you have a CHL in Portland, Beverton, Salem etc.

There is NO place that you Cannot OC, that you can CC if you have a CHL or a concealed carry license. Please read ORS 166.173 (2) all of it. It states out "
2) Ordinances adopted under subsection (1) of this section do not apply to or affect:"

If you do not have a CHL you better not be CCing anyway.

 

[hermannr]

That only applies to folks without a CHL. If one has a valid CHL, any city or county laws prohibiting one from OC will not apply. CHL holders are immune from such ordinances.

You too need to read ORS 166.173 (2) specifically for you...(2)(c) and (2)(d)

(c) A person licensed to carry a concealed handgun.

and

(d) A person authorized to possess a loaded firearm while in or on a public building or court facility under ORS 166.370 (Possession of firearm or dangerous weapon in public building or court facility).

Now, in layman's terms, will you tell me what the difference between (2)(c) and (2)(d) is and why there are two distinctly separate exemptions. I'll give you a hint...((2)(d) requires a license issued under ORS 166.291 and .192 AKA an OR CHL)