Cerberus Training Group - Muzzle Brakes

[powermad]

I have not had good luck with those. Typical results for me are increased recoil and flash, and if you are shooting anywhere other than an open field, the noise comes right back.

I was kinda wondering about that. Sounds about like sonic Pool.
Stupid physics, has to suck all the fun out of everything.

 

[titsonritz]

I'm going to show my ignorance here but will ask anyway.

Is an A2 flash hider a form of a muzzle brake?.

The A2 is a Flash hider or flash suppressor.

A brake has baffles or chambers and ports for the blast, usually toward the rear or sides.

Some people perceive the A2 as a brake because it has a flat bottom as opposed to the open bottom symmetrical A1 flash hider, but it definitely does not function the same as the modern crop of muzzle brakes (please people don't use "break") which have small exit pupils barely larger than the projectile, which funnels more gas out the side ports.

As mentioned the A2 is designed to be a flash suppressor but as as bonus, due to it's closed bottom and open top, it forces the gas upward which helps fight muzzles rise like a compensator. There are more effective compensator designs but they suck at flash suppression and can have severe blast as well. Brakes are designed stabilize the muzzle by directing the gas rearward and/or to the side, this basically pulls the rifle from the should to minimize rearward felt recoil, but the price tag is stupid blast and noise which is why many schools are prohibiting their use.

ETA: The A2 is a pretty hard muzzle devise to beat especially considering they cast all of 8 bucks. IMO spending more should be 100% purpose driven.

 

[titsonritz]

Thank you Powermad and User1234. And apologies to Cerberus for the thread drift.

It's not a thread drift, your question is on point with the topic.

 

[titsonritz]

I run one on a .308 and it works as advertised.
I picked one up for the same reason, low to no concussion as a primary consideration.
You don't need an auto darkening welding helmet to shoot it in low light either.

I did set some cups up on the bench to see if it would blast them and they stayed about the same with or without. I haven't shot it next to anyone yet but if the cups don't mind it shouldn't bother the guy in the next lane anymore than a .308 usually does.

That is good to hear and in line with what I've been told about them. I was originally introduced to the PA EFAB and AFAB from a guy that shot 556 at long range with very high magnification scopes and wanted a MD the would help stabilize the rifle so he could see the impact without obnoxious blast, report or flash.

 

[gunnails]

Next stupid question is why do I need a A2 flash hider? How does it make my rifle shoot better and is there any major down side to removing it? I'm not recoil; sensitive but wouldn't mind reducing the felt sound of the gun.
Obviously I'm a novice with a AR platform, but my use of my AR is strictly for plinking fun, not for home defense, or hunting, or trying to one up my buddy.

 

[titsonritz]

Next stupid question is why do I need a A2 flash hider? How does it make my rifle shoot better and is there any major down side to removing it? I'm not recoil; sensitive but wouldn't mind reducing the felt sound of the gun.
Obviously I'm a novice with a AR platform, but my use of my AR is strictly for plinking fun, not for home defense, or hunting, or trying to one up my buddy.

It protects your threads, muzzle crown and keeps 3 feet of flame from squirting out of the barrel.

 

[gunnails]

Thanks, don't want to mess up the crown, but the three feet of flame sounds intriguing.

 

[titsonritz]

Thanks, don't want to mess up the crown, but the three feet of flame sounds intriguing.

Not when your proned out in dry grass exchanging rounds.

 

[Geardo]

Not when your proned out in dry grass exchanging rounds.

Who needs smoke grenades when you have a kak flash can!?

 

[gunnails]

Not when your proned out in dry grass exchanging rounds.

===============================

Ha Ha, that hasn't been a recent concern, but yes I get it.
Thanks.

 

[Kruel J]

Thanks, don't want to mess up the crown, but the three feet of flame sounds intriguing.

It's not that cool actually. I've tried it and ended up seeing nothing but flash through my optic when I pulled the trigger. Just added time for me to get back on target.

 

[titsonritz]

Draws a bit of attention at night or other low light scenarios, too.

 

[Kruel J]

Draws a bit of attention at night or other low light scenarios, too.

Yup. So in a nutshell run the birdcage.

 

[Cerberus Group]

I am not familiar with every muzzle device made. If the brake on a students rifle is close to the output of an A2, then you're good to go. If I need to see an oral surgeon to reset my teeth after shooting with you, then there's you're clue. And I really think anyone with a brake can make that honest assessment.

I have been around a few brakes where the output was very close to an A2 so much that I couldn't tell.

I've tried a few combo brake/flash hiders over the years and found the BCM A2X is pretty good.

Ever since I went to mid-length gas systems some years ago, coupled with H2 buffers, life is oh so flat and smooth.

A couple people last year had the Vltor A5 buffer system, and I was able to try them out...I liked them so much, I went with one on my last build. No need for a brake.

 

[powermad]

titsonritz has posted about that system several times.
I keep meaning to get some more parts and convert mine over.
Started looking into a rifle length system but the A5 seems to be a better option and is a lot more tunable.

I'm more or less new to AR's and don't see the need to swap out the A2.
It's more than sufficient for me.

 

[jfw]

This is why suppressors are great. Its infuriating that they are NFA. I've got a break on a scar 17 and its brutal to those standing off to the side.

 

[coop44]

I have been a proponent of the Levang linear comp since the 90's. Used it on virtually all my builds and buys. Never any complaints at the range. Now sold by brownels as linear compensator. Still the cleanest looking one out there.


Edit: brownells evidently only sells ugly sh!t now, but I found it here Levang Linear Compensator -Ultimate AR15 Muzzle Brake AR-15 Comp

 

[titsonritz]

If the brake on a students rifle is close to the output of an A2, then you're good to go. If I need to see an oral surgeon to reset my teeth after shooting with you, then there's you're clue. And I really think anyone with a brake can make that honest assessment.

Most brakes and comps are just stupid obnoxious. I have no idea why some one would want crazy blast like that even with the alleged benefits. Personally, I don't enjoy being around them at all and is a huge factor for me when I consider parting from an A2. The A2 is the gold standard yard stick of muzzle devices for sure and dirt cheap to boot. Flash suppression is my number one consideration in an MD so it is pretty hard to beat.

A couple people last year had the Vltor A5 buffer system, and I was able to try them out...I liked them so much, I went with one on my last build. No need for a brake.

titsonritz has posted about that system several times.
I keep meaning to get some more parts and convert mine over.
Started looking into a rifle length system but the A5 seems to be a better option and is a lot more tunable.

I'm more or less new to AR's and don't see the need to swap out the A2.
It's more than sufficient for me.

The A5 is just better, it has most of the strengths of the rifle and carbine buffer systems without most of their weaknesses. The A5 widens operational range, reduces bolt velocity, cyclic rate & felt recoil, eliminates bolt bounce coupled with a mid length gas system (which does some of the same things) the weapon shoots so much smoother and in doing so increases the service life of the weapon. I'm not going out of my way to change my carbine buffers over (at least for now) but any new builds get it without doubt, the lone exception would be a rifle system and for something very specific.

If I had to point out any downsides (most things have them) it would be a slight increased cost and only one source for buffers. It seems to have gotten much better but I do recall sometimes finding parts have been a pain in the caboose. At least BCM and Magpul make the tube now along with VLTOR so that has made a huge difference and since I've committed to it I keep spares around.

Just for the sake of discussion...
When I was making a parts list for a 10.5 pistol build I was looking at the Griffon Armament M4SD linear comp.
Not as a brake but to send all the noise and blast away from me, probably looks like a Howitzer at night though. Although a can would take care of that and all of it would be a moot point anyway.

Do you have any experience with those type of muzzle devices on 10.5" barrels?

I have been a proponent of the Levang linear comp since the 90's. Used it on virtually all my builds and buys. Never any complaints at the range. Now sold by brownels as linear compensator. Still the cleanest looking one out there.


Edit: brownells evidently only sells ugly sh!t now, but I found it here Levang Linear Compensator -Ultimate AR15 Muzzle Brake AR-15 Comp

Here's another with similar linear concept I have but have not yet installed to test run it.
Covert Comp :: Black River Tactical

 

[oli700]

Just for the sake of discussion...
When I was making a parts list for a 10.5 pistol build I was looking at the Griffon Armament M4SD linear comp.
Not as a brake but to send all the noise and blast away from me, probably looks like a Howitzer at night though. Although a can would take care of that and all of it would be a moot point anyway.

Do you have any experience with those type of muzzle devices on 10.5" barrels?

I run one on a 10.3" carbine gas and it is excellent. It does very well with sound for folks on your flanks, for the shooter it deepens the report, less sharp . It has a small bit of brake ability as the gas is forced through the small ports in the muzzle end restriction. At the same time it has a bit of compensation as well the three top ports , I like it better than other linears for that. It doesn't mess with gas pressure like the Krink style and it works better as a muzzle device than those fake Krink flash can things .

 

[Mygrainman]

I do not blame you...
I went to our county range 1 time, and the guy next to me was running a brake on a 6.5 CM that nearly jarred my soul loose every time he lit one off....

I do have 1 brake that goes on my SPR 18" AR...
With that brake, the Vltor A5 buffer system, and Intermediate gas...the recoil is like shooting a rim fire.
And it's way quieter than a flash hider... or even a blast forward device...
... in fact i actually don't even wear ear pro if I'm the only one at the range


I know Mygrainman is being a smartazz again... Sorry
I'm only half way through my healing process stuck in this bed for going on a month now... I can't help it.

I've been chatting with Steve, and I've decided a weekend @Cerberus Group with a few of my NWFA brothers is great motivation to rehab, and to celebrate my ability to walk again...probably A few months out though.
Who's coming?