Cerberus Training Group - Muzzle Brakes

[Cerberus Group]

I have been researching the residual effects of gunfire in general, as my wife swears I have selective hearing...but then I've been on the range now for close to 30 years. The research was not only about the obvious; hearing, but inner ear organ damage as well...that being the spiral cavity of the inner ear containing sensory organs which produce nerve impulses in response to sound vibrations.

This came about the week before Christmas where I was co-teaching a group of LE folks. One student had a brake that would not only just about make a person's knees buckle, but physically pick them up and move them 5 yards with every shot. OK, maybe not 5 yards, but you get the picture.

In discussing the issue with some hearing specialists, doubling up on hearing protection with both ear plugs and muffs may not be enough. The concussion alone can cause symptoms of traumatic brain injury if exposed for long periods and/or consistent exposure.

With that in mind, I have made a decision about about muzzle brakes at not only the Cerberus Training Group facility, but anywhere I instruct. I know this may cause some to bypass training with my company, but feel it best for the long term health and safety concerns of my students, as well as the distraction they create in providing a positive learning environment.

Muzzle Brakes : Due to the possible long term residual effects of their use, from not only the decibel level, but also from the concussion which can lead to possible damage of the inner ear containing an organ which produces nerve impulses in response to sound vibrations, we are no longer allowing them on the range.

If you remove your brake prior to arriving at our facility, I have standard flash hiders to use at no cost to you. Let me know ahead of time.

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[3MTA3]

Personally I see no reason for a muzzle break with 5.56. I fired one shot as a test without hearing protection since in a real situation you can't ask the bad guys to hold off until you at least get some ear plus in. It was so godawful bad I swapped it for a Smith right then and there. I did use hearing protection, but frankly no real difference in recoil or control from just the flash hider.

 

[titsonritz]

From what I've seen you are not alone in this policy.

We are going to have to test the EFAB I showed you, as I mentioned the reason I got it was specifically because it supposedly does not exhibit the concussive blast trait of most brakes and compensators.

 

[spookshack]

I have been researching the residual effects of gunfire in general, as my wife swears I have selective hearing...but then I've been on the range now for close to 30 years. The research was not only about the obvious; hearing, but inner ear organ damage as well...that being the spiral cavity of the inner ear containing sensory organs which produce nerve impulses in response to sound vibrations.

This came about the week before Christmas where I was co-teaching a group of LE folks. One student had a brake that would not only just about make a person's knees buckle, but physically pick them up and move them 5 yards with every shot. OK, maybe not 5 yards, but you get the picture.

In discussing the issue with some hearing specialists, doubling up on hearing protection with both ear plugs and muffs may not be enough. The concussion alone can cause symptoms of traumatic brain injury if exposed for long periods and/or consistent exposure.

With that in mind, I have made a decision about about muzzle brakes at not only the Cerberus Training Group facility, but anywhere I instruct. I know this may cause some to bypass training with my company, but feel it best for the long term health and safety concerns of my students, as well as the distraction they create in providing a positive learning environment.

Muzzle Brakes : Due to the possible long term residual effects of their use, from not only the decibel level, but also from the concussion which can lead to possible damage of the inner ear containing an organ which produces nerve impulses in response to sound vibrations, we are no longer allowing them on the range.

If you remove your brake prior to arriving at our facility, I have standard flash hiders to use at no cost to you. Let me know ahead of time.

Red Frog Team has a similar policy. The text below was taken from their website:

"No muzzle breaks (due to safety concerns) - Muzzle breaks divert gas left and right of the shooter. This is not a problem when the shooter is alone on the line. It becomes a problem when the shooter is participating in a training event in which, multiple shooters are on the line next to each other, or when conducting CQB, or other small unit tactics. During the course of firing 300 to 500 rounds (or more) participants are not just distracted from consistent concussion pinging, but have actually begun to experience the effects of a traumatic brain injury. These symptoms include, headache, and blurred vision. The increased noise levels also reduce a shooters ability to hear range commands, such as, Cease Fire. The decibel levels of most muzzle breaks are increased to levels that require double hearing protection by OSHA standards. For these reasons Red Frog disallows muzzle breaks during our training.

If you remove your muzzle break prior to the course, you may borrow a standard flash hider".

 

[308]

Depending on the application, this type of FH/Brake significantly reduces muzzle flash and directs the sound downrange. I use them on ARs also

 

[Stomper]

But, but, but...... you can't mount your bayonet with that on there!

 

[powermad]

From what I've seen you are not alone in this policy.

We are going to have to test the EFAB I showed you, as I mentioned the reason I got it was specifically because it supposedly does not exhibit the concussive blast trait of most brakes and compensators.

I run one on a .308 and it works as advertised.
I picked one up for the same reason, low to no concussion as a primary consideration.
You don't need an auto darkening welding helmet to shoot it in low light either.

I did set some cups up on the bench to see if it would blast them and they stayed about the same with or without. I haven't shot it next to anyone yet but if the cups don't mind it shouldn't bother the guy in the next lane anymore than a .308 usually does.

 

[Cerberus Group]

My current build I'm wringing out, so far with 1000 rounds put through it...has mid length gas and the Vltor A5 buffer system with an A2 flash. It's the flatest recoiling rifle I have.

No need for a brake...but will check out the EFAB next time titsonritz is up.

 

[Caveman Jim]

I am hearing challenged but not from gunfire, years ago I had a viral infection that affected both ears and my balance. It took me a lot to get through in 10 years that might balance was basically restored with only occasional dizziness.
With all the symptoms that I had one of the worst was that loud noises really hurt my ears, not only gunshots but import fart cars, chainsaws and uncapped headers on V8's....

That being said, I have to double up on hearing protection and I refuse to shoot or be around anyone on the firing line shooting with a brake.

I enjoy weekdays at the ESC because it's not as crowded and I can get away from those loud booming high powered bolt action rifle guys.

 

[Cerberus Group]

Red Frog Team has a similar policy. The text below was taken from their website:

"No muzzle breaks (due to safety concerns) - Muzzle breaks divert gas left and right of the shooter. This is not a problem when the shooter is alone on the line. It becomes a problem when the shooter is participating in a training event in which, multiple shooters are on the line next to each other, or when conducting CQB, or other small unit tactics. During the course of firing 300 to 500 rounds (or more) participants are not just distracted from consistent concussion pinging, but have actually begun to experience the effects of a traumatic brain injury. These symptoms include, headache, and blurred vision. The increased noise levels also reduce a shooters ability to hear range commands, such as, Cease Fire. The decibel levels of most muzzle breaks are increased to levels that require double hearing protection by OSHA standards. For these reasons Red Frog disallows muzzle breaks during our training.

If you remove your muzzle break prior to the course, you may borrow a standard flash hider".

I saw that on their website , which gave me the idea of loaning A2s for classes.

 

[gunnails]

I'm going to show my ignorance here but will ask anyway.

Is an A2 flash hider a form of a muzzle brake?.

 

[powermad]

I'm going to show my ignorance here but will ask anyway.

Is an A2 flash hider a form of a muzzle brake?.

The A2 is a Flash hider or flash suppressor.

A brake has baffles or chambers and ports for the blast, usually toward the rear or sides.

 

[User 1234]

Some people perceive the A2 as a brake because it has a flat bottom as opposed to the open bottom symmetrical A1 flash hider, but it definitely does not function the same as the modern crop of muzzle brakes (please people don't use "break") which have small exit pupils barely larger than the projectile, which funnels more gas out the side ports.

 

[gunnails]

Thank you Powermad and User1234. And apologies to Cerberus for the thread drift.

 

[Cerberus Group]

No apologies necessary. A clarification was needed...thank you for your post.

 

[Geardo]

@Red1 and I were discussing this recently. I think it is a smart policy.

 

[Kruel J]

I dislike muzzle brakes in general.

 

[User 1234]

I'm good for this next weekend's class, my 1911 does not have any race gun fanciness.

Who is joining me for the class?

 

[powermad]

Just for the sake of discussion...
When I was making a parts list for a 10.5 pistol build I was looking at the Griffon Armament M4SD linear comp.
Not as a brake but to send all the noise and blast away from me, probably looks like a Howitzer at night though. Although a can would take care of that and all of it would be a moot point anyway.

Do you have any experience with those type of muzzle devices on 10.5" barrels?

 

[Geardo]

Just for the sake of discussion...
When I was making a parts list for a 10.5 pistol build I was looking at the Griffon Armament M4SD linear comp.
Not as a brake but to send all the noise and blast away from me, probably looks like a Howitzer at night though. Although a can would take care of that and all of it would be a moot point anyway.

Do you have any experience with those type of muzzle devices on 10.5" barrels?

I have not had good luck with those. Typical results for me are increased recoil and flash, and if you are shooting anywhere other than an open field, the noise comes right back.