CCW shooting legal insurance?

Ought Six · Jun 15, 2012

I got a promo email from the NRA recently about buying insurance that pays your legal bills should you have to shoot someone in self-defense. It is aimed at people with CCW permits who carry regularly. Apparently the insurance is a rider on a more standard policy of some sort. Does anyone have any further information on this? Good idea? Ripoff?

lamrith · Jun 15, 2012

There is also:
Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network, Inc.

Not exactly insurance, but looks like a good program all around and spoksperson is Massad Ayoob, arguably the best Personal defense expert in the country.

Edgewalker · Jun 15, 2012

Or there's also Self Defense Shield which you can find out about at usconcealedcarry.com These sort of "insurances" would be worthwhile if you ever had to use a gun in self defense. I bet they would be a great help to George Zimmerman.

beavertonbuck · Jun 15, 2012

This is not meant to be legal advice and your mileage may vary. Just so you know my background I work in the insurance industry handling claims and had some experience with injuries resulting from violence. Before buying additional insurance read your homeowner's or renter's policy. Both policies include liability coverage and most people don't realize that the liability coverage isn't just attached to the home. You have liability coverage throughout the US and usually the world as well. Look in the exclusion section for intention injuries. Most policies written today that I see have an exception if you are using reasonable force to protect persons or property.

Now keep in mind that this is all very fact and state specific. Also your insurance company has different duties when deciding whether to defend or imdenify you for a loss. The defense duty is usually very broad which means that you could have your defense paid for in a civil trial but maybe not have the award paid if your insurance company has evidence that it wasn't self-defense or if they don't have an exception to the exclusion. When I say state specific I mean that each state has intepreted intentional injuries a different way. As an example I see you in WA so the courts have said that an inebriated individual can't form intent (drunk driver hits another car, then gets out and starts bashing other driver's head with a baseball bat). Also In WA the insurance company has to look outside the complaint (assuming a civil suit has been filed) and look for facts that might be favorable for finding coverage under your policy.

Also I would want to see endorsement they have that provides this coverage. I believe that it would need to have some of the same exclusions regarding intentional (criminal) acts because they don't want to be representing gang bangers who are shooting it out with one another. I went online and couldn't see the actual endorsement but noted a few things. The coverage is for both criminal and civil trial as where your homeowners is only going to cover civil. It appears that they cap the attorney cost at $50k which I can tell you for a civil trial will most likely not be enough.

Sorry I can't tell you if the NRA policy is any good. I couldn't find any instances were any has used the insurance.

Haysuse · Jun 15, 2012

That is excellent and accurate advice. Zimmerman wouldn't have been helped by this because they're saying it was intentional. Every insurance policy I've ever seen excludes intentional acts.

Ought Six · Jun 16, 2012

Thanks, everyone. Great replies!

viehmann7680 · Jun 17, 2012

I'm going to have to look into the NRA insurance. Thank you for bringing it to my attention! Also I've always wondered this. I grew up around firearms and served 7 years in the army. So I have never thought I needed the classes people offer. But is it good to take some of the classes people offer. Like concealed carry classes or ones similar. Most ranges offer them, at least around Tacoma. But basically I'm asking if I was ever in a situation would these classes help your defense? or just a waste of money..., if you already know the info.

Ought Six · Jun 17, 2012

viehmann7680 said:
I'm going to have to look into the NRA insurance. Thank you for bringing it to my attention! Also I've always wondered this. I grew up around firearms and served 7 years in the army. So I have never thought I needed the classes people offer. But is it good to take some of the classes people offer. Like concealed carry classes or ones similar. Most ranges offer them, at least around Tacoma. But basically I'm asking if I was ever in a situation would these classes help your defense? or just a waste of money..., if you already know the info.

Classes will definitely help you in court. They show that you are a responsible gun owner interested in safety and trained in proper procedures. That makes it much harder for the prosecution to demonize you as 'ignorant', 'dangerous', 'wanting to shoot someone', and etcetera.

DCKilla · Jun 24, 2012

What if I choose to open carry?
Some states' statutes require the state to pay for defense fees if sued by relatives of a dead criminal if not charged for the homicide, i.e. Mississippi. Can you pocket that money if it's the case?