Burgler Gets shot from home owner with rubber bullets

[The Redpaw]

Let me re-iterate my opinion on 911 operators, in the following video you'll here a remarkable situation that explains why you need to call 911 first, then your gun.

Okla. Woman Shoots, Kills Intruder 911 Operators Say It's OK to Shoot - ABC News.mp4 - YouTube

You know that there will be questions, you know the left will try to justify their stance of hoping for the best without firing a weapon. This video really states the need to take control of the situation first, then seek other opinions elsewhere.

....as soon as he came in the door.

Do you think she knew he had a knife?, does it matter?. Should she have waited to hear his intentions?, not likely, EVER.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I dial Mossberg 500 and BHP 40 first. If anyone calls the cops it will be my lady in her secured bedroom

 

[clambo]

I've been through training, some of the best in my opinion. I was always told the first thing you reach for is your cell phone and dial 911..... And then your gun.

The reason being, you are being recorded. Hear me out, as it was explained this way.

While on the phone with 911, you are explaining the situation as you are seeking a safe place to hide ( whether you are or not ) and that the perp sounds like he is getting closer.

All of the sudden you drop to a lower position ( showing cowardice to the perp ) and starting screaming... No, no, get away from me.

And the shot fired is recorded, your actions are shown to have sought protection, you fired from a cowardice position and you were ( attempted to ) afraid of your life.

I was instucted that when you fire, you may sure that you claim oh god, he's attacking me and verbiage of that matter. BUT do not take the advice of the 911 operator to wait for officers to arrive as they might confuse you for the bad guy.

You then instruct the 911 operator that you believe the hostile has been killed and you are waiting outside and then gun has been unloaded and placed on the ground next to you.

Then and only then do you listen to the politically correct version of her canned speech on how to act when officers arrive.

Opinions?

After I don't do or say any of the above .......remember....when the questions begin, do not talk to the cops. Politely refer any questions that the cops will have to your attorney. ( The one you ought to have on retainer if you can afford to )
The police are not, repeat not your friend. Say nothing no matter what. ( The one you ought to have on retainer if you can afford it. )

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I was in fear for my life and/or my family. I have nothing further to say at this time

Then lawyer up. If you have the $$ now would be the right time to retain a well qualified self defense attorney. I know it's on my list

Note, testimony by those you may be locked up with can be used.. best shut yer yap

 

[lamrith]

Read it again, think you missed it…

ORS 161.219¹
Limitations on use of deadly physical force in defense of a person
Notwithstanding the provisions of ORS 161.209 (Use of physical force in defense of a person), a person is not justified in using deadly physical force upon another person unless the person reasonably believes that the other person is:
(1) Committing or attempting to commit a felony involving the use or threatened imminent use of physical force against a person; or
(2) Committing or attempting to commit a burglary in a dwelling; or
(3) Using or about to use unlawful deadly physical force against a person. [1971 c.743 §23]

In other words, a person is justified in using deadly force if he reasonably believes that the other person is (2).

IN a dwelling, meaning inside the home only. Someone outside stealing your lawnmower (never know what a methhead will grab) or your vehicle in the driveway does not meet the criteria to make taking a shot legal. What is does allow is for the homeowner to take the shot if the guy is trying to force the door open, break an window to get in, some thing active and unmistakable to gain entry. Simply stalking around does not qualify. Could be a guy looking for his dog (worked in point break right?) Or someone drunk and lost. Could be your kids BF/GF (as much as you might hate them you can't shoot them...) The best bet is to stay in your home, call 911 and monitor the person from inside your home. If they try to gain entry then you have your justification and are within the law to protect yourself.

 

[lamrith]

After I don't do or say any of the above .......remember....when the questions begin, do not talk to the cops. Politely refer any questions that the cops will have to your attorney. ( The one you ought to have on retainer if you can afford to )
The police are not, repeat not your friend. Say nothing no matter what. ( The one you ought to have on retainer if you can afford it. )

Being the 1st to call 911 is a good idea, not saying before you protect yourself, but do it as soon as it is possible, this establishes you as the victim. Most phones have speaker phone option, hit that and drop it on the bed, floor, in a pocket so you have two hands on your weapon.

But don't fabricate comments or add drama to it, that will make it sound staged and like your shoot was a set-up. Chances are in this stressfull a situation you would not say it right anyway. If you called 911 and have pulled out your weapon in your home, obviously you have fear of imminent attack, or someone is already in your home. Know the law, stay within the law and you will be OK, You just need a good recording of how it unfolds.

Once they arrive you should be unarmed and offer basic simple compliance with the police, do NOT just say nothing at all and lawyer up, that's what criminals do. You need to state right from the start that you were in fear for your life. Also then point out any critical evidence that you can, but say nothing more. You need to point out the evidence as the crime scene will be very active and shell casings and small evidence can and will get caught in shoes and tracked all over. The 1st officers to respond are there to secure the scene not protect evidence. This will also establish at the scene that you are the victim, that is important because all they know is that you shot someone, possibly killed them, you "are a criminal", the case now is if it was justified. You need to protect that evidence and convey your fear of bodily injury for your lawyer to use to prove it was justified later if needed. Once you outline that limited information, it is time to zip it and say nothing further. They will also as mentioned above start pumping you for information and questioning you, politely state to the officers that you wish to comply with them and will file a report but that you are not speaking further until you consult a lawyer.

Having a lawyer on retainer is a great idea, or at least have the number for one that you know is pro 2a and handles self defense cases regularly.

 

[mjbskwim]

^^^^^^^^^^^
WATCH THE VIDEO AT THE BOTTOM OF MY POST
DO NOT TALK TO THE POLICE
NOTHING BUT I WILL MAKE A STATEMENT AFTER TALKING TO MY LAWYER

Let me re-iterate my opinion on 911 operators, in the following video you'll here a remarkable situation that explains why you need to call 911 first, then your gun.

Okla. Woman Shoots, Kills Intruder 911 Operators Say It's OK to Shoot - ABC News.mp4 - YouTube

You know that there will be questions, you know the left will try to justify their stance of hoping for the best without firing a weapon. This video really states the need to take control of the situation first, then seek other opinions elsewhere.

....as soon as he came in the door.

Do you think she knew he had a knife?, does it matter?. Should she have waited to hear his intentions?, not likely, EVER.

AS I say in these threads and may have here already,go count how many things you have between your bedroom and the front door that could kill you if hit with.(hint:bats,tennis racquets,fire pokers....)
Then go look at all the weapons in the kitchen.(pans,knives,etc)
Don't worry if he came in with a weapon,there are plenty in your house

After I don't do or say any of the above .......remember....when the questions begin, do not talk to the cops. Politely refer any questions that the cops will have to your attorney. ( The one you ought to have on retainer if you can afford to )
The police are not, repeat not your friend. Say nothing no matter what. ( The one you ought to have on retainer if you can afford it. )

Always keep this link handy!
Dont Talk to Police - YouTube

 

[Dogface]

IN a dwelling, meaning inside the home only. Someone outside stealing your lawnmower (never know what a methhead will grab) or your vehicle in the driveway does not meet the criteria to make taking a shot legal. What is does allow is for the homeowner to take the shot if the guy is trying to force the door open, break an window to get in, some thing active and unmistakable to gain entry. Simply stalking around does not qualify. Could be a guy looking for his dog (worked in point break right?) Or someone drunk and lost. Could be your kids BF/GF (as much as you might hate them you can't shoot them...) The best bet is to stay in your home, call 911 and monitor the person from inside your home. If they try to gain entry then you have your justification and are within the law to protect yourself.

Good catch, thanks for pointing that out. (I'll edit my post to reflect that mistake, thanks).

 

[Blitzkrieg]

^^^^^^^^^^^
AS I say in these threads and may have here already,go count how many things you have between your bedroom and the front door that could kill you if hit with.(hint:bats,tennis racquets,fire pokers....)
Then go look at all the weapons in the kitchen.(pans,knives,etc)
Don't worry if he came in with a weapon,there are plenty in your house

If this matters I am toast.. my home is a medieval arsenal

 

[accessbob]

Another reason I really hate Oregon. Wish I was back home in Colorado THAT HAS REASONABLE LAWS

I don't get it. I'm curious as to what you consider unreasonable about ORS 161.219.

 

[Misterbill]

Look, if you break into my home, past a dead-bolt and two barking dogs, you just earned yourself a GSW. Whether that wound is fatal or not is not my concern.

The law is as clear as can be on this. IF YOU BREAK INTO SOMEONE'S HOUSE, it's open season on your *** and no questions will be asked.

We've seen case after case of this in WA state in the last couple of years. In NOT ONE SINGLE CASE was the defender sued.

You wanna sue me for shooting your *** after you break into an obviously occupied residence? GO FOR IT. A jury in my county will take about 5 seconds to come up with a verdict. I will then sue you AND YOUR ATTORNEY for abuse of legal process and malicious prosecution. Go find a lawyer that will risk the Hellfire I will bring down on his *** for his failed atempt to sue me for lawful defense ON CONTINGENCY. Ya, let me know how wthat works out for you...

Fear of lawsuits is suited for places like Massachusetts or California or in cases where the shooting was legitimately very questionable. NOT, in your house, sure as Hell not in WA when the shooting was of an invader in your home. Anyone who wants to cite 5 cases in the last 20 years out of seven million people where such a case was successful, please do so. Until then I call BS.

As for warnings? If I look at you down my sights and see you're 12-years-old, I will probably give you a warning. Other than that, your warning is going to be the two holes I put in your chest.

 

[davemata]

Fear of lawsuits is suited for places like Massachusetts or California or in cases where the shooting was legitimately very questionable. NOT, in your house, sure as Hell not in WA when the shooting was of an invader in your home. Anyone who wants to cite 5 cases in the last 20 years out of seven million people where such a case was successful, please do so. Until then I call BS.

I think it also begs to mention:
In MA, shooting someone who has broken into your home will get you arrested and tried, even if you had no other options. In that state castle doctrine can be used in a defense, but is not defense from being arrested and tried.

Keep that in mind when calling laws out here (except CA) unreasonable. In MA, even though you are the victim, you're going to be bleeding big bucks just to try a completely reasonable reaction to potentially being killed in your own home.

Massachusetts General Law, Chapter 278, Section 8(a): In the prosecution of a person who is an occupant of a dwelling charged with killing or injuring one who was unlawfully in said dwelling, it shall be a defense that the occupant was in his dwelling at the time of the offense and that he acted in the reasonable belief that the person unlawfully in said dwelling was about to inflict great bodily injury or death upon said occupant or upon another person lawfully in said dwelling, and that said occupant used reasonable means to defend himself or such other person lawfully in said dwelling. There shall be no duty on said occupant to retreat from such person unlawfully in said dwelling.

Please note the first 6 words.

 

[salmonriverjohn]

I think it also begs to mention:
In MA, shooting someone who has broken into your home will get you arrested and tried, even if you had no other options. In that state castle doctrine can be used in a defense, but is not defense from being arrested and tried.

Keep that in mind when calling laws out here (except CA) unreasonable. In MA, even though you are the victim, you're going to be bleeding big bucks just to try a completely reasonable reaction to potentially being killed in your own home.



Please note the first 6 words.

Or these last seventeen,
"There shall be no duty on said occupant to retreat from such person unlawfully in said dwelling".
The only rational section in the Massachusetts law, just my 2 bits.

 

[davemata]

Or these last seventeen,
"There shall be no duty on said occupant to retreat from such person unlawfully in said dwelling".
The only rational section in the Massachusetts law, just my 2 bits.

You're still going to jail. Still going to get railroaded, they still push for a plead or bleed. Comm2A deals with stuff like that more than they should.

 

[salmonriverjohn]

Oh, I believe you davemata. Still, if there's lead in the air in when all the chips are down, there's hope that you'll be around to face a jury of your peers. The old adage "I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by six" comes into play here. Only a fool, or perhaps the Dali lama would allow someone to come into their home and commit bodily harm or worse to his family and stand by without attempting to stop, by using any means necessary the attack from occurring. I'm not that guy, and I'd bet your not either.

 

[Flopsweat]

...
Only a fool, or perhaps the Dali lama would allow someone to come into their home and commit bodily harm or worse to his family and stand by without attempting to stop, by using any means necessary the attack from occurring.
...

Doubtful.
Daili Lama (ref May 15, 2001, The Seattle Times):
"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun."

Daili Lama ain't no fool...

 

[davemata]

Oh, I believe you davemata. Still, if there's lead in the air in when all the chips are down, there's hope that you'll be around to face a jury of your peers. The old adage "I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by six" comes into play here. Only a fool, or perhaps the Dali lama would allow someone to come into their home and commit bodily harm or worse to his family and stand by without attempting to stop, by using any means necessary the attack from occurring. I'm not that guy, and I'd bet your not either.

Oh I wouldn't let anyone walk into my home and do harm to me and mine without a completely over the top response complete with chest thumping and a little air guitar.

Problem with MA, is you and I, simply as gun owners are a reviled minority. We'd never find a jury of our peers, sadly. That's one of the evils of MA that probably will never get fixed. Which is sad, because it is a nice place to visit.

 

[AMProducts]

What did bears ever do to you?

For some reason they keep digging through my garbage. I don't get it... my garbage really isn't that fabulous!

 

[davemata]

For some reason they keep digging through my garbage. I don't get it... my garbage really isn't that fabulous!

Admit it. You throw out far too many feather boas and lube. Admitting it is the first step! ;-)

 

[Misterbill]

I admit it OH the SHAME....I throw out LEATHER boas every saturday night from being too saturated....Those poor bears I shoot are victims of my herterosexual kinks. Will PETA EVER forgive me? -The Horror....the horror...