Building light load for wifes 9mm

[Member 34319]

3.0-3.2 grains titegroup and polymer coated 115 grain bullets are fairly light recoiling in everything I've got except the straight blowbacks.

 

[RVTECH]

You can drop down to 100 grain bullets but cycling would be a crapshoot.

I had a couple boxes of 100 grainers that were given to me and with 4 grains of Bullseye they cycled my CZ but I could tell it was a BIT weak.... Recoil was zero.

 

[clueless]

Question, I want to load a soft shooting round for my wifes full size (IWI Masada) 9. Given the phenomenon of more powder for lighter projectile and less for heavier would it make sense to go to a heavier (say 124 to 147 grain) projectile? My original thought on this was lighter the bullet lighter the recoil. But studying load data and seeing broad grain use makes me question which way to go.

If you are loading hollow point bullets of any type then there is also a consideration for minimum velocity needed to expand. This would probably favor the lighter projectiles. I have found Winchester ( now Hodgdon ) 231 to be a very good choice for light loads in 9mm, and can join the others that recommend this powder. One of the good things about it is that it is more bulky than many other suitable powders, so you get a little better case fill with light loads.

In my experience with light loads using a 115gr RN plated bullet, shooting in a stock G34 ( 5.3" barrel ), the book minimum 4.1gr gave a velocity of about 1020 fps and there was a failure to cycle three out of ten rounds. 4.3gr put it at 1108 fps and I tested up to 4.7gr. Everything in that range gave good results with my setup and 0 failures.

With a 124gr RN plated bullet, it took 4.5gr W231 to get 1116 fps. Of course this comes with a little more recoil.

The slightly shorter barrel of the Masada would cost something in velocity if shooting the same rounds but you have a lot of freedom in bullet choice, seating depth, and powder charge in this range.

 

[41mag]

not a fan of shooting for shootings sake because of constant noise and recoil.

for myself, I had long noted my own issues with flinch etc, on any 357 load no matter how bland. There's simply something about the sonic/muzzle briskness that detracts from suitable POI. I found 147 wc loads in 38 special, or 215 cast SWC @ ~950 in 41 mag to serve me better. The calculated numbers also seem quite adequate compared to either 357 or 9mm. I'm talking typical range steel target distance or even paper targets for group size. Bowling pin distances/target shapes are helpful for establishing comparisons.

 

[Goodknight]

I'm at 3.8 grains of TG with a 124 grain PRN and 100% reliability and light recoil out of my CZ 75 BD - of course it's all steel so that has something to do with it

All steel makes all the difference.

 

[aasbra]

While felt recoil seems somewhat subjective, when loading for 9mm I typically like 124/125 grain or 147 grain projectiles with a mid range load for practice/range use, enough to reliably cycle all my guns, but definitely not loaded hot. To my feel, as others commented, the heavier bullet (vs. 115 grain) seems to have more a "push" impulse than a snappy recoil of higher velocity 115 grain factory ammo.

 

[po18guy]

Where facts are few, opinions are many. Even with facts, here at NWFA...

This is something that you will have to try. If Wolff makes lighter recoil springs, or a "calibration set" for the Masada, then you can load light until it no longer cycles. You want load variety? Do you have the second edition of LEE's Modern Reloading? Buncha loads for light bullets in there. IIRC, W-W makes light recoil factory loads.

 

[WillametteWill]

Thank you for your thoughtful response. Actually she has three firearms. .380 EZ, Masada 9 and Ruger LCR with crimson trace in grip. In the moment I believe she could use any one to defend herself. It's the shooting for muscle memory that is the issue. She is not a fan of shooting for shootings sake because of constant noise and recoil. But she understands in todays world like it or not she needs to be proficient. So when it comes down to it all her defense weapons are loaded with Hornady critical defense ammo. I'm trying to bridge the gap of more pleasant time at the range...make sense?

Completely makes sense and good on you for doing what you are doing, for her as well for staying with the practice even though it is not her passion. Respect here. Hope you find all your answers.

 

[dangerranger60]

So if I'm hearing everybody correctly going to a higher weight projectile is going to soften the recoil. I'm not interested in buying any ammunition especially at the prices out there now looking to reload which I do a good practice round for her

What I did when I had to learn to shoot left handed and only with one hand was load 105 gr bullets at the lowest level that would cycle my gun. 4 gr of Tite Group would get me just under 1200 fps and almost half the recoil as a 124 gr bullet at the same speed. Lee makes the mold, and I was happy with the training result. It took a few rounds before I was happy with my performance, so I was happy with the light loads. now that I am back to shooting with both hands I still practice with both. DR

 

[OldBroad44]

If the noise bothers your wife I would suggest getting better hearing protection. If the gun stings her hands I suggest using thin soft cotton gloves if shooting more than a few rounds. If I'm shooting a 6" .44 mag with mid level loads it doesn't bother me. But with full power loads it stings my hands, even with rubber grips. That buzz in your hands after shooting represents temporary nerve damage. (Same situation with some lab sonic cleaners.) If continued the damage can be permenent. So it should be taken seriously. The gloves are likely to solve the problem for anything up to and including full power .44 mag loads in full size guns.

If you're reloading, the full power loads with light bullets usually have sharper recoil. The equally full power loads with heavier bullets usually have a recoil that is more of a push. I find the former much more unpleasant than the latter. And as has been mentioned, the fast burning powder gives you more of a snap. The slow burning powder gives you more of a push.

I think there is much to be said for practice ammo whose trajectory and recoil matches your SD ammo as closely as possible. Then use fancy electronic hearing protection and the thin cotton gloves.

 

[Goodknight]

If the noise bothers your wife I would suggest getting better hearing protection. If the gun stings her hands I suggest using thin soft cotton gloves if shooting more than a few rounds. If I'm shooting a 6" .44 mag with mid level loads it doesn't bother me. But with full power loads it stings my hands, even with rubber grips. That buzz in your hands after shooting represents temporary nerve damage. (Same situation with some lab sonic cleaners.) If continued the damage can be permenent. So it should be taken seriously. The gloves are likely to solve the problem for anything up to and including full power .44 mag loads in full size guns.

If you're reloading, the full power loads with light bullets usually have sharper recoil. The equally full power loads with heavier bullets usually have a recoil that is more of a push. I find the former much more unpleasant than the latter. And as has been mentioned, the fast burning powder gives you more of a snap. The slow burning powder gives you more of a push.

I think there is much to be said for practice ammo whose trajectory and recoil matches your SD ammo as closely as possible. Then use fancy electronic hearing protection and the thin cotton gloves.

Good advice! Thank you.

 

[coop44]

Seems like women are more comfortable stabbing than shooting. Maybe transition her over to a really good fixed blade. My ex stabbed me in the back with a certain glee.

 

[3MTA3]

How well does your wife's pistol fit her hand? A poor fit can make recoil seem harsher while a good fit does the opposite. You may not need different ammo. If her pistil has an adjustable grip that's all it might take in addition to the mechanics of her grip.

 

[OldBroad44]

Seems like women are more comfortable stabbing than shooting. Maybe transition her over to a really good fixed blade. My ex stabbed me in the back with a certain glee.

I don't know any women more comfortable with stabbing than shooting.

 

[Jason200911]

I did a lot of googling and 147 grains has the advantage of low penetration, near subsonic, and soft pushing recoil. 115 grain has high penetration, overall energy, and high muzzle flip recoil. The kind that might jump out of someone's hands if they use lightweight micro compacts.

 

[OldBroad44]

I did a lot of googling and 147 grains has the advantage of low penetration, near subsonic, and soft pushing recoil. 115 grain has high penetration, overall energy, and high muzzle flip recoil. The kind that might jump out of someone's hands if they use lightweight micro compacts.

Incorrect on penetration. Youre comparing apples and aardvarks. The penetration of 147gr 9mm is going to depend heavily on bullet style, as is true for all other weights. So a 147 solid will penetrate more and a jhp much less assuming equal power loads. And both bullet types are found in commercial 147 loads. Likewise for 115 gr. The solid versions will penetrate more than the jhp versions assuming equal power. And equal power is generally fairly close in ammo for semi autos because it takes a certain power range to work the slide. Generally if you compare a solid 147 to a solid 115 of the same design the 147 should penetratrate more because it has more momentum. Assuming the same bullet design. Bullets with flat noses and sharp edges on average penetrate better than round nosed bullets because they tend to go straighter. Round nosed bullets are more likely to veer rather than go straight through stuff. Hard cast bullet s on average penetrate better than soft bullets because they cut through bone rather than smashing against it or deflecting off it.

Sure, if you compare penetration of a 147gr jhp with a 115 gr solid the 147 gr jhp might penetrate less. Unfair test as you would be comparing a 147 designed to expand to a 115 designed to penetrate. Then generalizing inappropriately to all ammo of those weights. If you instead compare penetration of a 147 gr solid and a 115 gr jhp the 147 will undoubtedly penetrate more. And if you do the fair thing and compare versions of both with jhp bullets its unpredictable because it depends heavily on exact bullet design, the medium its going through, what it goes through before the measuring medium, bullet speed, etc.

Your generalization about energy and bullet weight aren't valid either.

147 gr 9mm rounds generally are, indeed, designed to be subsonic.

 

[3MTA3]

I don't know any women more comfortable with stabbing than shooting.

I think most women would go for what was the handiest so long as the snoring and/or farting stopped and they could finally get some sleep.

 

[mortre]

I've had luck with 130gr RN cast (and plated) 38 super bullets with ~4.0 gr of AA#2. I get about 975fps out of a 4.25" commander, and it cycles my M17 as well. So it's not a total pipsqueak load, but it's still noticeably lighter than standard loads.

 

[po18guy]

Seems like women are more comfortable stabbing than shooting. Maybe transition her over to a really good fixed blade. My ex stabbed me in the back with a certain glee.

Danged lucky you didn't marry Lorena Bobbitt!

 

[red442joe]

My IDPA load is 115gn lead swc over Herco.
Starting load off of old Lee data sheet. Not in current books. Yes Herco is a slow burning magnum type shotgun powder. However, it has been clean and consistent through my stock barreled G17, with insignificant leading.
Very soft, gamer quality, yet makes power factor.
If I wanted to make anything softer for general shooting, I'd use TrailBoss.

Joe