Bug out bag weight, do you include a tent and sleeping bag?

[CamoDeafie]

The only beef with this though is that once you add it all together it weighs the same as a tent or damn close to it and doesn't provide nearly the durability or protection a tent does...

Actually the stuff I have is lighter than the small stansports A frame tent with its metal poles... and still lighter than the 9x9 tent I have.. mainly due to the tents having a much thicker, heavier plastic tarp like floors.
The silnylon tarps that I use for hammocking; under 1 lb each. The Bushcraft USA 10x10 tarp is little bit over 1 lb, but packs into a nalgene sized pouch. The IBNS Catoma bug bivy tent though.. 30oz or almost 2 lbs. Together with the 10x10 tarp its about 3lbs.. and thats the heaviest tarp/bugnet combo I have. whereas the stansports A frame which is NOT waterproof on the top, is 5lbs all in.. and you need to add a tarp to it or spray waterproofing to it which increases weight anyhow. The 9x9 tent is 7lbs on its own.. due to the floor, full height rainfly, and dome design with old fashioned 10mm fiberglass poles.
The hammock tarps and hammock bugnet together is 1.5lbs, but the hammock itself for my weight.. a little over 2lbs.. with cordage and tree straps the weight difference goes away. Understand that this is without insulation which for the hammock means the down underquilt and for the ibns bug bivy a usgi closed cell pad.
For both systems, the sleep systems varies... can be as light as 1 usgi poncho liner to as heavy as the Intermediate Cold Weather bag... and the two sizes of down bags I have are each about 2 lbs for fiancees and little shy of 3lbs for my much larger toastier bag.

The smaller usgi ponchos are as heavy as the 10x10 nylon tarp because of the perimeter snaps and grommets and heavier coating... instead of taking tent poles plus hiking sticks, i just take lightweight hiking sticks and cordage so that eliminates some weight.. with enough cordage the sticks may not even be needed, depending on the areas youre going in.

Honestly? A lightweight tarp/ bugnet shelter are way better than a box-store dome tent that may not be totally waterproof.
In my experience in Oregon... it doesnt matter if your box store tent is brand new, you gotta add a tarp to cover it in most Oregon weather so why have the cheap tent to begin with? Just a tarp and a bug tent is more than enough for summertime for me... for winter or cold weather though, some tarp pitch shapes will keep the heat in just fine, and if theres no mosquitos.. then you can do away with the bugnet.
In dry but cool weather.. a campfire and a lean to tarp shelter is awesome if youre sure the wind wont shift.

Edit. Cheap box store tents are quite inferior in quality compared to what REI and Cabelas offer; but the tradeoff is the vast price difference.. for the money a lightweight tarp from Bushcraft USA, Etowah, Chinook Gear, and a few others.. or self-made silnylon/sil-poly custom tarps/tarptents from materials from ripstop by the roll and diy gear and oware gear are all awesome. Ripstop By the Roll also sells ultralight bugnet fabric if you're feeling up for making your own UL tarptent with 0.5oz-0.9oz bug mesh and 1.9oz floor, 1.1oz upper fabric or lighter fabric, they do have 0.9oz silpoly and 0.51oz Cuben fiber waterproof fabric (pricey!!!)
The oz numbers are per sq yard.
The 10x10 tarp and ibns both use 1.9oz Polyurethane coated ripstop nylon.

 

[Jamie6.5]

I don't carry a tent and SB in the truck, but there's always an 8'x12" poly tarp, a small roll of nylon cord and a good wool blanket. Even damp/wet the blanket will keep me from hypothermia.
The 12' dimension of the tarp allows for 4' or so to be used for a floor. It's more useful than a 10'x10'.
Between the 3, I doubt there's more than 10-12 lbs involved.

 

[Camelfilter]

Oh...and a follow up on the snugpak, one of there bags (maybe more, dunno) has a zip out expanding baffle for us guys with some of our own extra insulation. Really nifty.

I'll have to search up later this evening to figure out which one it is that we have that has that option. Still packs up extremely small, maybe 2x the size of a standard Nalgene bottle?

The snugpak we have are the "Softie Elite 1"... had to pull it out to look for the model name. It's only 45degree rated, but seems warmer.

They have a zero degree bag in that same line with the expanding baffle:

http://www.snugpak.com/outdoor/softie-elite-108

$98 on Amazon for the zero rated bag, not bad!

Amazon.com : Snugpak Softie Elite 3 Sleeping Bag, Desert Tan : Sports & Outdoors

 

[Member 3687]

I like the Heretic do not have a BOB but a GHB as my home is my BOL as well. Most everything I do is within 40 miles of my home so I figure 10 miles a day or less so I keep 4 days of basic supplies at the ready in each rig. I do have a plan B but feel for me at least things will be real bad if it is in play.

Over the years I have changed how I look at things and my plans multiple times and I am sure I will look at things different a year or two from now as well. Plans get changed do to construction and housing developments that did not exist 2 years ago so my paths home are now different from what they were.

So at this moment I do not have a tent but do have a poncho/light weight rain gear and plenty of large heavy black trash bags that can be used for temporary rain gear under or over your clothes. (Old biker trick)

Because of where I live (snow belt) my family always has blankets, extra coats and tarps in all of our cars as well as other equipment just in case we end up in a ditch for the night. These items can be grabbed quickly as needed for a trip home.

But on the subject of a tent it is a call you have to make as I do not know what your plans are but anything that will help in your survival is a good thing.

So my questions for you to answer to yourself is why would you be bugging out (natural disaster, Zombie apocalypse or something in between) and what is your bug out plan, do you have a place you are heading to in particular and what is the alternative if the first spot is a no go.

This will determine your needs more than anything because I hate to say it just heading into the woods aint going to cut it for too long unless you have some kind of hard cover already in place with supplies.

The reason I say this is most SHTFs do not happen in the middle of summer when all the berries are ripened and fishing is good they happen in the middle of winter with no food and the lakes are frozen over.

Once the plan and destination is in place with several routs mapped out along with in rout water sources then you can truly determine what equipment is needed.

You may have this already in place and if so sorry for the redundant info.

 

[Koda]

I agree with CamoDeafie on using a siltarp as a shelter.

But you guys that dont want to use a tarp shelter seem to be too stuck in the mindset of heavy gear, stop buying all that heavy milsurp stuff. As a general ultralight rule a shelter should weigh no more than 1lb per person

Check out the Big Agnes Fly Creek HV UL2 tent. Fully enclosed tent, weatherproof, sleeps 2 weighs 2lbs. Packs small in the pack.


Fly Creek HV UL2

 

[CamoDeafie]

Problem is the relative high cost of UL tents. Good questions here though.
Its not just the milsurp stuff thats ridiculously heavy... go to any of the warehouse stores or wal-marts and look at their ""backpack"" tents.. they almost are always 5lbs or more.
Cabelas and Sportsmans do also have some lighter weight stuff but theyre more focused on car camping gear and hunting parties gear.

UL backpack system or 2nd/3rd/4th/×th rifle?

UL tent or another 2k rds of rifle ammo?

I am also not a BOB person either. GHB or I'm dead. Shelter-in-place with close conmunity protection.

 

[Koda]

Problem is the relative high cost of UL tents. Good questions here though.
Its not just the milsurp stuff thats ridiculously heavy... go to any of the warehouse stores or wal-marts and look at their ""backpack"" tents.. they almost are always 5lbs or more.

UL backpack system or 2nd/3rd/4th/×th rifle?

UL tent or another 2k rds of rifle ammo?

I am also not a BOB person either. GHB or I'm dead. Shelter-in-place with close conmunity protection.

I agree the cost of good real UL tents is too high. The only way to justify that would be if your already into backpacking or even car camping regularly.

The cheaper tents are heavy, and most leak. Milsurp stuff is just heavy.

Thats why I think a siltarp is the ideal solution. Very versatile, can be used in many ways and not too expensive.

Another thing you guys have to consider is that if your bugging out, or getting home... This is a temporary situation, its not supposed to be the most comfortable or perfect situation. Thats why going as light as possible is important, all that weight is going to slow you down in an environment that doesnt want you there and even 1 extra days travel is 1 more day exposed to danger. Getting from A to B as efficiently as possible is part of the plan, 40lbs is way too much.

 

[CamoDeafie]

10x10 1.9oz nylon tarp setup over 2 hammocks last July in Sisters. We were toasty that night with the hammock equipment... and no real worries of wind, the pad in hers and self modded down underquilt cut down on the wind. I used the modified Kelty summer quilt and poncho liner inside to stay warm in addition to my base layers and fleece vest.
That old tent in bg is there only for privacy of changing clothes as there were other campers nearby

 

[Joe13]

I always keep a rolled up tarp strapped to the bottom of my bags.

I can live without a sleeping bag.

 

[Koda]

Yeah Id personally rather have a tarp than a sleeping bag if I had to choose between the two...
A tarp can be pitched low to the ground if wind is really a factor.

 

[Bushman]

A tarp will work fine for summer camping as pictured above, but in really harsh conditions where you really need shelter a tent is the way to go IMO. I know how to make a tarp enclosed on all sides except the floor, but a one man tent is worth the weight to me. I'd sacrifice weight elsewhere before I drop the shelter (tent and sleeping bag). Obviously in the summer a tarp CAN do. I've slept outside under one many summers as a kid. In the winter, I'd much rather have a tent.

 

[Joe13]

Did my outdoor survival merit badge as a teen and while a tent is nice, a tarp can be made to capture heat from a fire where a tent can not.

It was early January and snowed on me that night.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Did my outdoor survival merit badge as a teen and while a tent is nice, a tarp can be made to capture heat from a fire where a tent can not.

It was early January and snowed on me that night.

While that is awesome, and I've done it as well in fall weather...
He's probably thinking "no heat signature, no visual fire signature" for his BO plans.
Here is a hammock tarp made of 9 yards of camo cuben fiber ($$$$) that I have found online... it is callled Winter Palace tarp. Its basically a floor-less tent complete with doors. Anywhere from 9ft to 11ft wide and 12 ft long at the very top. Cuben Fiber version is something like 10oz with guylines. 8.5oz without guylines. 1.1 Ripstop version is about twice that; but can sleep 2 hammocks easily... there are pull out points that can be used to increase interior volume. It could also easily sleep 4 on the ground cloth or two army cots or the like.

 

[Koda]

You get bonus points for finding camo cuben fiber....

 

[CoastRange57]

I always keep a rolled up tarp strapped to the bottom of my bags.

I can live without a sleeping bag.

Sleeping bags for survival are a huge waste of weight and space. There are various levels of needing shelter and all the factors that go along with it. The chances of me being out in the woods and needing shelter are slim. I prep for a situation where I may be travelling and have to deal with a natural disaster that would strand my well prepped vehicles and force me to go to ground foot travel.

My GHB has three rolls of construction grade plastic 6 mil 20 x 20. Rolled up and tied to the side. I used this type of plastic on my nursery cold frames and green houses. This type of plastic is easily capable of maintaining an easy 40 degree temperature differential. Construct a drop front on it, in daylight this can reach 70 degrees in 30 degree sunshine or even a bit cloudy.

Years ago, during a Civil Air Patrol survival camp, using a lower grade of plastic I was able to construct a nice 3 sided lean to, with sides and a slight drop in the front. I also carry some light plastic twine, it is the strongest stuff you can imagine and very light. Duct tape as well. I used it for construction along with some paracord.

You set up this structure and then build a fire out in front of it. I then put a space blanket in those days up on the back slope of the lean to for a reflecting surface. The wrap yourself in another mylar blanket, wrap about 1/3 of the next roll of plastic around you and lay down and damn near roast. Spent 4 nights in one of these quite well.

If I have to go to this type of structure to survive, something has went very wrong. Most of my travels are very predictable any more. Occasional trips to the coast, and to our property in Central Oregon. I am very seldom out of reasonable walking distance from somebodys place that I know and could easily shelter with.

 

[TeacherSmurf]

Here is a hammock tarp made of 9 yards of camo cuben fiber ($$$$) that I have found online... it is callled Winter Palace tarp. Its basically a floor-less tent complete with doors. Anywhere from 9ft to 11ft wide and 12 ft long at the very top. Cuben Fiber version is something like 10oz with guylines. 8.5oz without guylines.
View attachment 354264

Very interesting. While expensive for "a tarp," the weight is a factor for us as:

A) I'm a smurf
B) we have two little ones to deal with​

 

[Brutus57]

If you are completely soaked, which you probably will be, a tent and sleeping bag is a good way to keep from dying. IMHO
At 50 degrees, soaked and a little wind it would not take a lot to get hypothermic. Day one you would probably be fine, but as you begin taking in less calories to save your provisions and burning more while surviving, the ability to strip off the wet clothes and park your bare carcass in a sleeping bag, even a cheap one could easily save your life. A small tent and a sleeping bag should only weigh in at about 8 pounds. Hikers combo Special
https://www.majorsurplus.com/adventure-dome-tent.html
Not everyone has to carry them, but that depends if your BOBs are supposed to be all inclusive in case one person in your party cannot get to theirs. Again IMHO. Our BOBs weight in right at 35 lbs less water.

If you are completely soaked you picked the wrong gear to bug out with. Damp, wet in a couple of places, maybe, but soaked, bad planning. I've ridden my motorcycle for 3 hours in 30-35 MPH winds and raining sideways for all of those hours. A couple pair of my motorcycle gloves got wet 3/4s of the way through the bad weather but except for about a 4 inch by 1 inch section at the top of my jeans where the coat rode up above my pants... my torso, arms, legs and feet were DRY, bone DRY. Frogg Toggs, nice, light, breathable WATER PROOF and easy to pack. If I am going to be busting brush then I wear them under my outer wear if the rain is coming. I have the same set that are 16 years old now.

Brutus Out

 

[Koda]

If you are completely soaked, which you probably will be, a tent and sleeping bag is a good way to keep from dying. IMHO
At 50 degrees, soaked and a little wind it would not take a lot to get hypothermic. Day one you would probably be fine, but as you begin taking in less calories to save your provisions and burning more while surviving, the ability to strip off the wet clothes and park your bare carcass in a sleeping bag, even a cheap one could easily save your life. A small tent and a sleeping bag should only weigh in at about 8 pounds. Hikers combo Special
https://www.majorsurplus.com/adventure-dome-tent.html
Not everyone has to carry them, but that depends if your BOBs are supposed to be all inclusive in case one person in your party cannot get to theirs. Again IMHO. Our BOBs weight in right at 35 lbs less water.

that set up weighs 11.75lbs.

I don't want to put anyones gear choices down, if your taking the time and getting the things you need your light years ahead of the world and this is a good thing.

....but those Stansport $40 tents are not seam sealed and will leak in the rain brand new. If you cant afford a silnylon tarp, get a cheap $15 classic blue tarp at Freddys. They are not super ultra light, but they are lighter than that 4+ lb Stansport tent that leaks and the blue tarps will not leak when they are new. A good tarp provides as much shelter from the wind and rain as any tent.

I still havent figured out where people are going to bug out to on foot?

 

[CamoDeafie]

I still havent figured out where people are going to bug out to on foot?

The mountains on either side of the Valley? Which most likely would be crawling with squatters and looters?

 

[Sgt Nambu]

Oh...and a follow up on the snugpak, one of there bags (maybe more, dunno) has a zip out expanding baffle for us guys with some of our own extra insulation. Really nifty.

I'll have to search up later this evening to figure out which one it is that we have that has that option. Still packs up extremely small, maybe 2x the size of a standard Nalgene bottle?

I am deeply baffled by you're baffle!!!

Actually I'm a fan of SnugPak gear, those items that I have (GHB's, medical pack, fanny pack) are very tough and well made!

I have light weight tents, a large amount of backpacking gear, some of it UL and all of it top quality. The wife and I don't need BOB's any more, we're too old and messed up to run far anyway! That stuffs for the kids, who are in incredible shape and well able to haul packs over an alp! I recently told my wife that, SHTF, I'm going to participate in the blood bath in the front yard. Maybe show some gangstas what M-1A's are for! Bless her heart she said that she'll be with me! I love that gal!!!
Other tent we have is an earthquake prep. Its a nylon, nine man tent with a good fly, so post EQ, if the house is damaged and things are peaceable we will have a roof over our heads.
I have more to add, but my right hand, arm and shoulder are on fire! So, another time. Good thread with lots of great ideas and plans!