Bronze colored brass - newbie question

[ARFrog]

I deprimed for the first time this week - about 240 pieces of 9 mm brass. Today, I loaded up a Franklin Arsenal rotary tumbler with the dirty brass, new S/S pins, water, about 3 cases full of 2X Dawn and 1 1/2 cases full of Lemi Shine. After 3 hours ( 2 1/2 plus 1/2 hr with fresh rinse water) everything came out clean and no pins were lost. However, the cases were "bronze colored" not brass.

Here is the end product with one uncleared case as a comparison:



Is this because of too much Lemi Shine with the acid etching or reacting with the zinc? Or is this likely due to conditions with my local water source? If Lemi Shine, what amount do you use to get shiny brass instead of bronze colored cases?

Also, am I correct in assuming that this is merely a cosmetic issue?

Thanks

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[Camelfilter]

Yah, as you posit. Your water, the amounts & the time in the tumbler with such.

Cosmetic, however MAY shorten its useable life span. May not.

Your going to have to play with your formula for your water. Sounds like too long of tumble time to me. Start there, back it up to 45min/1 hour, followed by 15 min (or less -5 min) rinse tumbl.

 

[Camelfilter]

Oh and most likely NOT the amount of Dawn, but the Lemishine. Cut that back to just a case...

 

[P7M13]

Three cases of Dawn, as in a thimble of 9mm?
Not even close to what I put in. Same with lemishine. I'll put in a 1/2 cup of Lemon Juice. Then again, if you used a minimal amount of water, your concentration may be much higher than mine.
How much water did you use? What weight of pins?
240 cases of 9mm in the Frankford Tumbler is a very small amount. I'll do 2K at a time.
If you put in too much water for such a small amount, you could have limited washing contact.

I've had the brass come out like that 2x:

1. When I used tartaric acid.
2. When the cases were brass plated steel. Have you tried a magnet on these?

Edit to add, there have been times when I forgot to add Dawn, the cases came out dirty. Times when I had no lemon juice, and it made no difference.

 

[ARFrog]

Pins - what came with the tumbler - 2 lbs???

Water - full drum

Dawn - 3 - 9 mm cases full

Cases - brass not magnetic metal

 

[Legion489]

Not sure what I'm looking at that is a problem. Looks fine to me. There should not be any acid eching with that amount of Lemishine and only 2 1/2 hours. Usually to get any visible amounts of etching we are talking overnight or longer. To be safe cut back on both Dawn and Shine by about half and see what you get, but I'm a squirt and dash type too, so it's not exact. I wouldn't worry about your brass, try it and see what happens. Usually my "new/and 'once fired' (probably a few times before getting to me)" brass will have a few fail in the first one to five loadings, after that it lasts 30+ loading (I finally quit bothering to count how many loads I got after I loaded a bunch 36 times w/full loads and figured that was enough counting, just shoot until it splits a neck and turn it into cuff links, tie tack, dummy rounds, etc.) and gets lost, "picked up" by someone else, etc.

 

[ARFrog]

OK, I'll try half the Dawn, maybe half a case of Lemi Shine in the same full amount of water for 1 1/2 hours total and see what I have as a result.

I really wasn't worried about the cases. I just wanted to figure out how to keep them shiney.

Thanks for the tips and insights. I will try it again in a week or so after my next trip to the range.

 

[P7M13]

Pins - what came with the tumbler - 2 lbs???
Water - full drum
Dawn - 3 - 9 mm cases full
Cases - brass not magnetic metal

Don't change the Lemishine or Dawn. Halve the water amount.
IMO, too much Dawn just foams up. Not a problem. At 1.5 thimbles of Lemishine, you're already putting in a miniscule amount.

I thought my steel cases were brass too. Part of my pins cleanup is to stick the magnet into my first rinse bucket to pull out pins. Out came a dozen cases too. Looked like brass, were definitely ferrous.

{edit to add} the real surprising ones are the cheap 9mm brass that is made from two pieces somehow bonded together. On some, you'll see the seam. On others, you may see a lip inside the case about 1/3 the way down from the mouth. I try to cull those before tumbling.

 

[Helocat]

It's the Lemishine/Citric Acid to the pH level of your water. Everyones "mix" will be slightly different to get the bright shine we all want and deserve, due to different pH levels based on what you have coming out of the tap, well, or buckets from the river depending on where you live.

Just comes down to the water/citric acid ratio you are using. Experiment making known adjustments and you will get great brass. Remember adding citric acid is not like adding extra sugar to make the cookies taste even better, too much and your brass turns bronze or almost red.

FOR ME it's one 9mm case of citric acid and a pea-size drop of AmorAll car wash per load in a Frankley rotary tumbler drum I run them at my house on city water. If I am out on the ranch where I moved all my reloading too, its on well water and takes a .40 case of citric acid for the same results. I am sure someone with some chemistry background can come up with a chart to measure pH and tell ya the correct ratio. Me; i not'goodly edukated justs trials and some errorrorrs. (I never learned the 1st rule in chemistry class very well. "don't lick the spoon".)

My "measuring" device is a 9mm case with a 14gage solid copper scrap wire twisted on the base to make a handle allowing me to dip the case in the citric acid powder. Real fancy like.

 

[DizzyJ]

As mentioned, you may have to play with the mixture. I usually use about one 9mm case full of lemishine and a quick squirt of Dawn dish soap. Doesn't usually take much and that's for 1/2-3/4 full Frankfort tumbler with the water at least 3/4 to the top.

2 hours is generally what I tumble my cases at.

 

[awshoot]

...
I really wasn't worried about the cases. I just wanted to figure out how to keep them shiney.
...

Wet clean and then polish in a vibratory polisher with brass polish (I'm working my way through a bottle of some Dillon stuff presently and the brass shines like gold after a couple hours).

My brass comes out of the wet tumbler looking shiny, but it turns dark after a day or too. I just use whatever dishsoap is in the house at the time. I recently tried adding a little vinegar to see if that made a difference -- it did not. I've heard some people use some amount of wax in their wet tumblers, but I'm happy using the vibratory tumbler post wet cleaning -- I think it makes the brass slightly smoother too which would be logical considering the difference in the abrasive level between stainless pins and corncob.