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bad winchester ammo

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by robosimono, Aug 8, 2011.

  1. robosimono

    robosimono Stevenson, WA Member

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    I bought a box of 100 9mm rounds made by winchester, their value pack. I was just loading rounds and shooting, and repeating the process a few times. I take my first shot, and my Keltec P11 jams. I have shot a few hundred rounds from this gun and haven't had one problem. I look at the shell, and the brass is crowned around the part where the bullet is seated. I can see what looks like gun power maybe?, stuck between the bullet and brass. The bullet also sits up higher than the rest, when in the box, which means the bullet isn't pushed in all the way. Is it possible that this round was overloaded? I found one more in the box just like it, luckily it jammed before i was able to pull the trigger. I went to winchesters website for ammo, but a contact us link or customer service number for the ammo is non-existent. Any thoughts or suggestions? Ill try to throw a picture up here of the problem.

    P1010022.jpg P1010020.jpg P1010019.jpg P1010018.jpg P1010017.jpg
     
  2. ogre

    ogre Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    Do you have calipers or a micrometer? For starts I would measure the cartridge and then pull the bullet and do some measuring and weighing of all the components and then compare them against other cartridges in the box.
     
  3. Throckmorton

    Throckmorton Florence,Ore ah gone Well-Known Member

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    I"d video the process of measuring/pulling/weighing,just for the record.
     
  4. robosimono

    robosimono Stevenson, WA Member

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    if i do pull these two apart and record the information/process with video, besides determining the problem, what end result would arise from this? you would think their ammo website would have contact information because what if i had fired this round and it blew up in my face? I could report this, and potentially report a defective lot/batch, but with no phone number or email address that is kind of hard.
     
  5. shoe

    shoe Carlton, OR Member

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    618-258-2000
     
  6. robosimono

    robosimono Stevenson, WA Member

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    thanks. I will call them tomorrow. how/where did you find their phone number?

    i googled that phone number and found it leads to winchester's privacy department. I haven't called the number yet, but it seems to be related to being added or removed from their mailing list, and the sharing of personal information. have you dialed this number and determined its destination?
     
  7. shoe

    shoe Carlton, OR Member

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    Only number I could find of any sort on their site, thought they could at least point you in the right direction. I'm surprised the box doesnt have a POC on it
     
  8. deadshot2

    deadshot2 NW Quadrant WA State Well-Known Member

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    Winchester has had some serious problems lately. Several blown up Rifles from use of wrong powder in ammunition resulting in a recall.

    Winchester 5.56 Ammunition Recall | The Firearm Blog

    While this recall was for 5.56mm (.223) ammo, it could happen in any part of their manufacturing operation. The same poor quality control that allows someone to load a machine with "Pistol" powder can also allow improperly assembled rounds to make it out the door.

    That's why I prefer to make my own. Rather than buy New ammo, I just buy new cases and assemble my own when I want something other than a "reload".

    BTW, "Value Pack" might well be a clue here. They don't put their good stuff in "Value Packs".
     
  9. shoe

    shoe Carlton, OR Member

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    Sad to hear that, I usually buy Winchester Supreme w/ Accubond bullets since its close to my loads for my 7mm Rem Mag and uses the same bullets. Never had a issue with those... Now I'm kind of worried.
     
  10. deadshot2

    deadshot2 NW Quadrant WA State Well-Known Member

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    To sum it up, "Winchester ain't Winchester anymore". They are part of the Olin Corporation which has been sadly mismanaged since the departure of John Olin in 1963.

    They're running their ammo factories 24/7 and whatever is rejected or doesn't meet the standards of their contracted customers ends up in the "Civilian Market". The Government regularly checks what's headed their way under purchase contracts with either inspectors in the plant(s) or test sampling received quantities.

    Unfortunately "us Civilians" don't have this luxury so we get the "crap" nobody else will buy. Just remember the warnings on all boxes, words to the effect "Use at Your Own Risk".
     
  11. billdeserthills

    billdeserthills Cave Creek, Arizony Well-Known Member

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    As an ffl I have met & spoken with many folks who have unfortunately had guns blow up while shooting. Most of them believe the winchester white box ammo is at fault, and as a result I no longer use the "white box" ammo.
     
  12. deadshot2

    deadshot2 NW Quadrant WA State Well-Known Member

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    The "Big Blast" occured with their Ranger ammo on a police range. Several AR-15's on two separate occasions went KA-BOOM. Ranger isn't their cheap crap either.
     
  13. robosimono

    robosimono Stevenson, WA Member

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    and thats where the term "white-box" ammo arises... I am not so surprised that there was a manufacturing defect. I am surprised that their scanners/safety equipment did not find the defective shells and reject them. I am even more surprised that there is no customer support contact information. Its as if they are saying, "if something bad happens, good luck."

    I think the "right" way to load your weapon is to inspect every round before preparing it for fire. Had i done this before i loaded the mag, I would have noticed the problem. I will steer away from winchester the next time I buy ammo. The only reason i bought it was because 100 rounds for 25$ is only 5$ more for two boxes of the stuff i had planned on buying (tulammo), which is im sure of even less quality and standards, but being a budget shooter I am not going to spend 40-50 cents a round when the manufacturing cost of that round more than likely the fraction of a penny. I have a reloading kit, but haven't used it yet and all i need is gun powder, some 9mm bullets, and a 9mm die. I have a 7.7 jap die set i was planning on trading for a good 9mm die, but thats for another forum.
     
  14. tac

    tac UK, Oregon and Ontario. Well-Known Member

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    Here in UK we have been getting the standard Winchester rifle ammunition in .243 and .270 coming out of the box with split necks. It goes right back to the dealer, and gets exchanged for another brand.

    For the OP - you should be aware the 9mm Para cartridge is VERY sensitive to seating depth, and too-deeply seated bullets can give you catastrophic results.

    tac
     
  15. deadshot2

    deadshot2 NW Quadrant WA State Well-Known Member

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    Last comment first. The actual cost of a "round" is far more than a penny, even if you are huge like Winchester. I reload 9mm ammo 3-4 thousand rounds at a time. I buy primers and powder in quantity, while not as large as a manufacturer, still pretty good sized orders. My 9mm loads, using a jacketed HP bullet, cost me almost exactly $0.10/round. The largest cost of the round is the bullet at $0.06 each. Copper and Lead are expensive no matter who you are. Even if Winchester was able to load those rounds for half as much, they still have to provide a case which I reuse. Sorry, "fraction of a penny" is not accurate. Closer to $0.03 to $0.05/round. They probably MAKE a penny or so per round in profit.

    I realize that not everyone wants to, or can, reload. If looking for quality ammo at the lowest possible cost however, it is the best route. You get to control the quality and performance of the ammunition you shoot. It also provides a nice hobby activity that fills cold winter afternoons or lazy weekends.
     
    ogre and (deleted member) like this.
  16. shoe

    shoe Carlton, OR Member

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    I'm assuming that's similar to the 9mm NATO rounds that winchester sells? the +P load?
     
  17. deadshot2

    deadshot2 NW Quadrant WA State Well-Known Member

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    I believe the "9mm Para" he is referring to is "9mm Parabellum". This is the original designation of 9X19 ammo which is also known as 9mm Luger.

    All 9mm ammo is sensitive to seating depth due to the relatively small case capacity. Most powder charges will just about fill the available space. Push the bullet too far into the front of the case and things can come flying out the rear of the case when it's fired.
     
  18. shoe

    shoe Carlton, OR Member

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    Wow I feel like such a newbie for not connecting Para to Parabellum haha
     
  19. deadshot2

    deadshot2 NW Quadrant WA State Well-Known Member

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    That's OK. Sometimes it's hard to understand someone who's speaking "King's English".

    A famous quote that covers this confusion:

    England and America are two countries separated by a common language.
    ~~~~~~George Bernard Shaw