National Background Check Person Must Pay for Firearm?

[Member 5605]

Ok..

So I'm at the counter yesterday going to purchase a Kimber Micro 9 and I check with the wife, she says wait.. I'll buy it with my rewards card tomorrow. So I place a 24hr hold and walk out of store.

Today I come back, she is between a few scheduled events and is there to pay.

Background check comes back in about 10 minutes that I'm free and clear of everything as expected and we go up to pay.

Woman behind counter says "He has to pay it's for him." I call Bullbubblegum on that and ask why? That's the whole reason my wife is here because we were and are going to use her rewards Visa. No I'm told it's a Federal law. So now I've wasted an hour and a half of her time and she is livid... I'm about to go live on the roof because this contentious woman isn't happy....

I almost said "FK it" and walked out of the store as the rewards portion from the firearm brought it into a reasonable amount. See where I'm going with this?

Now it wouldn't have mattered if I swiped or she swiped her visa.... who's to judge? If I sign my name to the card vs her... right?

What ended up happening was me using my non-rewards visa to complete the transaction... both of us were pissed.


Was I being fed a line of bubblegum at the store?


-Dyjital

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[Belial]

The first question you check yes or no to on the 4473 asks if you're the buyer. If someone else pays then you are not the buyer.

 

[Colts4me]

Since 911 they have followed all credit card purchases so they can see who buys what and when they bought it. It's a way they track terrorist right down to the food they eat. Your wife's bill would have showed she purchased the gun while the 4473 would have you as the buyer. Government won't allow that. If you want to use her card she has to be on the 4473.

 

[jordanka16]

Not sure about law, but we require that the person who fills out the paperwork pays for the gun.

 

[KKG]

You're the Bubblegum in this. Read the 4473. It's the First Question asked.

 

[ob1]

Simple solution...get an authorized card with your name on it issued from her account, I have done it at Cabela's with my card issued on the wife's account so we could get points on the purchase and a lower interest rate.

 

[No_Regerts]

Is there not a provision for someone to gift a firearm? I've had one store allow a friend to buy me a birthday gift, they had me do the form since I was taking possession. Cabelas wouldn't allow the same thing when I attempted to return the favor. I asked if I could buy him a gift card and they said no, because it already looked "fishy". I offered for both to get a bcg and they told us to leave.

 

[fredball]

Pay cash problem solved

 

[Member 5605]

Since 9/11we (as my wife and I) have done this stuff before.

It's never mattered who slid what card.

I mean our accounts all have our names on them, I don't carry the rewards Visa card with me and she doesn't carry the non rewards card.

So in essence it wouldn't have mattered as both names are on the accounts. I use the term loosely "hers" and "mine" more as a representation of who carries around what card.


It's ok I guess. I don't buy from said store again. Customer service at time of swipe was not helpful and was kind of a beach.


Thanks @KKG your insight is really beneficial.

 

[Belial]

Pretty simple and yes it matters...You buy, you do the check, and all is good. FFL shouldn't know or care about joint accounts, marital status, or what you ate for lunch. It is done this way to deter straw purchases and not supposed to be subjective to the FFL.

 

[Member 5605]

Cabelas is right. The person who fills out the 4473 has to pay. Otherwise it is technically a straw purchase. If someone wants to buy you a gun they should give you the $ before you go in.

True.

But what's dumber than a bag of bubblegum is my wife could have done the bgc, paid and handed it to me right there in the store after she paid.

Legal 100%.

Guess now I know.

 

[Camelfilter]

Since 911 they have followed all credit card purchases so they can see who buys what and when they bought it. It's a way they track terrorist right down to the food they eat. Your wife's bill would have showed she purchased the gun while the 4473 would have you as the buyer. Government won't allow that. If you want to use her card she has to be on the 4473.

No. Our credit cards read "sporting goods store x, y or z" purchase, not what was purchased.

No one is sifting thru credit card purchases any further, to see what was specifically purchased by whom when where or why, without a warrant to do so with probable cause.

And again, I do in fact have a tinfoil hat. I just do not wear it much is all.

As to Dyj and the original q posted. Yah, unfortunately the checkout person is correct. Straw purchase kinda deal thwarted, thank goodness! The rest of the country can rest well at ease and all now.

Kidding aside, just another simple example of how rules & regs affect us simple law abiding folk.

-as to the checkout person, can't blame her really, as it's the're FFL that'd be on the line along with her job, for not following rules and regs.

As to others who may not have noticed who's card paid what, they may or may not be opening themselves up to some type of ATF "secret shopper" type scam that they similarly do at liquor stores.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

one time at costco i went to pay and they asked for my costco card.i said im not a member, my wife is. they said nope. i said OK handed her 100 cash and my card and she paid. the person at the register let out a sigh like i was such an inconvenience.

why the F do they care?

i 100% understand that in my case, were not talking about a 4473 but still... its stupid. sorry @Dyjital about your experience. that sucks.

 

[KKG]

True.

But what's dumber than a bag of bubblegum is my wife could have done the bgc, paid and handed it to me right there in the store after she paid.

Legal 100%. That's NOT true. It would be a Felony for you to do it that way. And, if an BATFE Agent or other LEO happened to be present it would be BOTH of you going to Jail. That is a prefect example of a "Straw Purchase".

Guess now I know.

 

[Sandaholic]

I have a good one.
Set up a trade deal with an LEO out of King County. He drove all the way out to Spokane as his end was a little sweeter than mine.
We are doing our BGCs and the FFL says "uh oh, you're out of King County". Guy I'm trading with "yep."

Long story short if you live in King County even if you have a CPL King or the State (one of the 2, don't recall which) does not accept transfers done by an FFL out of King County.

We just looked at each other and said "what?"

The FFL said "I will mail in the paperwork" and he let him take the pistol. "But I'm telling you don't be surprised when the ATF wants you to turn in the pistol and then show them your CPL in person."

It was pretty bizarre. Effed up as a soup sandwich. Government just doesn't make sense sometimes.

 

[CHLChris]

In marriage, it should be considered almost interchangeable. Mine yours his hers ours, none of that matters. My wife speaks for me I speak for her she buys for me I buy for her. If she says something, promises something, then I treat it as if I promised that. And vice versa.

My guns are her guns and...wait, no the opposite isn't true. She won't let me sell her guns. But you get my point!

 

[thorborg]

I was led to believe straw purchase law was intended to stop one from buying a gun and giving it to another not vetted person. If the person ending up with the gun fills out the form, has a background check, then I consider them Vetted regardless of the source of the money.
Right or wrong, by the interpretation apparently being applied here, no one should be able to buy a gun since we are not allowed to manufacture money, therefor it has to come from somewhere / someone before we get it.
With where the money came from as part of the mix, (and apparently an important one) all peoples should be outraged, as if not already, will eventually be applied to all demographics and all types of purchases. more and more people are being led down the digital money path with full future intention to scrap evil and untraceable federal currency.
Mean while, the government, and everyone taking your money from health care to day care, with a straight face, will claim to champion and protect your privacy.
One might think this would make the politicians duplicitous and the law fallacious.
Oh wait, I already believe that.

 

[ob1]

Is there not a provision for someone to gift a firearm? I've had one store allow a friend to buy me a birthday gift, they had me do the form since I was taking possession. Cabelas wouldn't allow the same thing when I attempted to return the favor. I asked if I could buy him a gift card and they said no, because it already looked "fishy". I offered for both to get a bcg and they told us to leave.

I assume you are talking about the Lacey store, pretty easy going from my experiences. I have 4473'ed there a number of times and I am not even a Wash resident. I think they got hinky when funds were coming out of your pocket in multiple ways with a second party doing the BGC. Having their store's card in your hands relaxes them a bit I bet. You weren't in uniform were you ?

 

[American123]

This is completely false.

In Washington state you can gift family members firearms without having to go to an FFL and perform the BGC. Family members includes sons, daughters, grandparents, parents, siblings, spouses, aunts, uncles, etc. It's all spelled out in the RCW. So if he was in Washington his wife can fill out the form, buy it and hand it immediately to him if she felt so inclined and as long as he is not a prohibited person they are good to go.

You are getting confused on what a straw purchase actually applies to. A straw purchase is when a prohibited person or person who otherwise legally can't buy/own a gun has someone else buy them a gun to avoid the BGC. Not that long ago it was in the news that the girlfriend of a felon performed a straw purchase that he then later used that gun to go murder some police. She only got probation after that. Talk about a broken system.

Anyway, long story short. Sometimes people are misinformed or don't know the actual law or how the laws are applied and it can be inconvenient.

Since the form says "are you the actual buyer" either have your wife fill out the form next time or you pay if you fill it out. Problem solved and you still get the pistol either way legally.

 

[No_Regerts]

I assume you are talking about the Lacey store, pretty easy going from my experiences. I have 4473'ed there a number of times and I am not even a Wash resident. I think they got hinky when funds were coming out of your pocket in multiple ways with a second party doing the BGC. Having their store's card in your hands relaxes them a bit I bet. You weren't in uniform were you ?

No, I dont do much more than buy lunch if I'm working or going to and from. I have a Cabela's card and we both offered to do the bgc. In the end, it was nothing we absolutely HAD to have that day. I know what its like to need to pay my bills, so I don't fault the guy. Just annoying.