National Background Check Person Must Pay for Firearm?

[No_Regerts]

This is completely false.

In Washington state you can gift family members firearms without having to go to an FFL and perform the BGC. Family members includes sons, daughters, grandparents, parents, siblings, spouses, aunts, uncles, etc. It's all spelled out in the RCW. So if he was in Washington his wife can fill out the form, buy it and hand it immediately to him if she felt so inclined and as long as he is not a prohibited person they are good to go.

You are getting confused on what a straw purchase actually applies to. A straw purchase is when a prohibited person or person who otherwise legally can't buy/own a gun has someone else buy them a gun to avoid the BGC. Not that long ago it was in the news that the girlfriend of a felon performed a straw purchase that he then later used that gun to go murder some police. She only got probation after that. Talk about a broken system.

Anyway, long story short. Sometimes people are misinformed or don't know the actual law or how the laws are applied and it can be inconvenient.

Since the form says "are you the actual buyer" either have your wife fill out the form next time or you pay if you fill it out. Problem solved and you still get the pistol either way legally.

It depends on what commie hell hole you live in. I read about an LEO who purchased a gun with an LEO discount and actually did a transfer to his father at a gun store. He is being charged with a straw purchase.

 

[ob1]

I read about an LEO who purchased a gun with an LEO discount and actually did a transfer to his father at a gun store. He is being charged with a straw purchase.

I am thinking that's the last LE discount he will be getting.

I've wondered what the time window is on straw purchases and if it's set Federally or locally varies.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

True.

But what's dumber than a bag of bubblegum is my wife could have done the bgc, paid and handed it to me right there in the store after she paid.

Legal 100%.

Guess now I know.

i agree. its not illegal for a wife to hand her husband her gun. infact, even though if she were to buy it for herself, fully intending for it to be for herself, she could change her mind after purchase and gift it to you (once you get home preferrably) since you are husband and wife w/o BGC granted you arent a felon. SB941 does not apply here.

 

[The Heretic]

Since 9/11we (as my wife and I) have done this stuff before.

It's never mattered who slid what card.

I mean our accounts all have our names on them, I don't carry the rewards Visa card with me and she doesn't carry the non rewards card.

So in essence it wouldn't have mattered as both names are on the accounts. I use the term loosely "hers" and "mine" more as a representation of who carries around what card.


It's ok I guess. I don't buy from said store again. Customer service at time of swipe was not helpful and was kind of a beach.


Thanks @KKG your insight is really beneficial.

If you are authorized on the card, then you should have been able to use it and sign your name. It doesn't matter what the account name is - that is just an account name, not necessarily the buyers name. The account name could have been Mxvzptlk and if you are authorized on the card then you are the purchaser. This is very common for married couples.

 

[The Heretic]

It depends on what commie hell hole you live in. I read about an LEO who purchased a gun with an LEO discount and actually did a transfer to his father at a gun store. He is being charged with a straw purchase.

It was his uncle and IIRC the uncle was in a different state and his uncle did not do a BGC or involve any FFL and his uncle paid him back with a check, which is when the LEO got caught. Because technically that is a straw purchase - the LEO bought it for his uncle but said on the 4473 that he, the LEO, was the purchaser when it was his uncle who was the purchase (his uncle asked him to buy it for him). That is federal law, not state law.

Supreme Court Affirms Police Officer's Felony Conviction for Buying Gun for Law-Abiding Uncle | Breitbart

State laws regarding BGCs often exempt transfers to close relatives - from the BGCs - but that does not exempt a person from the federal law. It is stupid, because the uncle was legal to buy the gun, but it is always safer to interpret the law in the most strict sense, not the common sense interpretation.

 

[American123]

It depends on what commie hell hole you live in. I read about an LEO who purchased a gun with an LEO discount and actually did a transfer to his father at a gun store. He is being charged with a straw purchase.

Yes, I specified in Washington. Despite our politicians trying to make us like California the commie hell hole, we are still able to legally buy guns as gifts to family.

 

[awshoot]

...
Supreme Court Affirms Police Officer's Felony Conviction for Buying Gun for Law-Abiding Uncle | Breitbart
....

Actually, the uncle did do a BGC in his state when the gun was transferred to him.

In 2009, Bruce Abramski went to a gun store at his home in Virginia and purchased a firearm. He filled out all the required federal paperwork providing his own name and identifying information and passing a federal background check. He then traveled to his uncle's home in Pennsylvania and delivered the firearm to a licensed gun dealer there. Abramski's uncle then filled out the same federal paperwork and passed his own background check before he could take possession.​

The main point from the article:

If Abramski purchased the gun on his own, then decided to give it to his uncle as a free gift, that would be legal. Or if Abramski bought it for himself, then the following week decided to sell it to his uncle, that would be legal. But because his uncle wrote him a check for the gun before Abramski went to the store to buy the gun, and thus was acting as his uncle's agent to buy a gun, Abramski committed a crime.​

 

[awshoot]

Interesting facts in this case:

In November 2009, Bruce Abramski learned that his uncle wanted to purchase a new 9mm Glock handgun. Abramski offered to purchase this weapon because, as a former Virginia police officer, he could get a discount. ...

In June 2010, Abramski was arrested for suspicion of committing a bank robbery. During a search of his home, the police found a receipt showing that Abramski gave the handgun to his uncle in exchange for $400. The police charged Abramski with violating federal law by making a false, material statement on an ATF form and with respect to information kept by a licensed firearms dealer. Specifically, the government argued that Abramski knowingly made a false statement to a firearms dealer, that he intended to deceive the firearms dealer, and that he made the false statement about a "material fact" when he did not disclose that he was buying the firearm for his uncle. A grand jury subsequently indicted Abramski.
​

{{meta.pageTitle}}

 

[quinnTJ]

Perhaps it's store policy to be extra diligent in selling firearms to people. Bottom line they're covering their asses.

It's also illegal to purchase an alcoholic drink for someone who hasn't been carded, regardless of marriage. Many restaurants and bars lose their liquor license for bubblegum like that. No chance in hell that a gun shop, big or small, would risk losing their FFL for sake of someone's reward points.

 

[DuneHopper]

Ive done this at the big C,( hypothetically) and had no issues.

 

[Member 34319]

Having worked at a big box sporting good store, we always had the person buy gift cards for the person buying the firearm. Then they bought the firearm. Had lots of husband and wife, uncles, brothers, dad's, do this as they thought they could pay for it so long as they did the transfer. All things considered a lot of these were played by ear, lots were turned away due to policy on zero tolerance for straw purchase.

 

[ma96782]

IMHO.....the level of investigation and/or resulting prosecution......has more to do with how politically connected you are.

Gun Store Files Accusation With ATF Over CBS Producer's AR-15 Purchase

another article about the CBS reporter.....

While showing how easy it is to buy an AR-15, CBS News may have violated federal gun control laws

Then.....

IIRC awhile back, wasn't Nancy Pelosi accused of a straw purchase when she bought that "present" of a firearm for her son. Funny, but my internet search for the news stories (as was reported back then), are meeting with "nothing." OK, Ok, ok....maybe it wasn't Pelosi at all. Anyone remember anything (maybe some other congress critter & an accusation of a straw purchase)?

Aloha, Mark

 

[buckshot123]

Ok..

So I'm at the counter yesterday going to purchase a Kimber Micro 9 and I check with the wife, she says wait.. I'll buy it with my rewards card tomorrow. So I place a 24hr hold and walk out of store.

Today I come back, she is between a few scheduled events and is there to pay.

Background check comes back in about 10 minutes that I'm free and clear of everything as expected and we go up to pay.

Woman behind counter says "He has to pay it's for him." I call Bullbubblegum on that and ask why? That's the whole reason my wife is here because we were and are going to use her rewards Visa. No I'm told it's a Federal law. So now I've wasted an hour and a half of her time and she is livid... I'm about to go live on the roof because this contentious woman isn't happy....

I almost said "FK it" and walked out of the store as the rewards portion from the firearm brought it into a reasonable amount. See where I'm going with this?

Now it wouldn't have mattered if I swiped or she swiped her visa.... who's to judge? If I sign my name to the card vs her... right?

What ended up happening was me using my non-rewards visa to complete the transaction... both of us were pissed.


Was I being fed a line of bubblegum at the store?


-Dyjital

 

[awshoot]

Wait, you're going bring a dead and buried thread to life and not even comment? Isn't that against the 3A or one of the others -- I forgot which?

 

[cigars]

It's a sales clerk, not a rocket scientist/Constitutional attorney. They're just following guidelines so they don't get hauled away in cuffs on a strawman technicality. I'd cut them some slack.

 

[BrandonBowen1]

Can you use the points to buy a gift card? @Dyjital

 

[BrandonBowen1]

Can you use the points to buy a gift card? @Dyjital

Ooops. Old thread

 

[Member 5605]

Ooops. Old thread

So a coworker of mine ran into this when buying a GIFT for her husband. She ordered said rifle, went through everything and went to pick it up after 3 weeks and ran into the same thing. So she had to drag her husband from home rest into the store so he could do paperwork when he wasn't buying. Was supposed to be a present but that store sure fkd that up.

Then it came down to payment. What a debacle, same situation.

Same green logo store.

 

[User 1234]

This is what the ATF has to say about it, although it would not be impossible for a court to rule that the instructions are not promulgated under the APA and therefore don't alter the case law in Abramski.

 

[Mikej]

Wait, you're going bring a dead and buried thread to life and not even comment? Isn't that against the 3A or one of the others -- I forgot which?

Yeah, and I read clear to post #17 before realizing it's a necro-thread.