National ATF reverses stance on shouldering pistol braces!

[bgdawgrr]

Sometimes the problem isn't with the ATF, it's with some dumbass gun owners that keep pushing more and more stupid questions. I've seen a ton of posts from our side pushing question after question forcing the ATF's hand. How many posts have we all seen with "I sent a letter to the ATF" with questions like "so I can make a SBR by adding a brace?" Or "why should I pay the $200 tax when I can add a brace and call it a pistol?" And the always appropriate "what's the difference between an AR sbr and an AR pistol with a sig brace as I can shoot from the shoulder?"
I cringed every time I read them and knew a reversal was coming or outright ban on them. I'm happy the ATF is open to change and hope the next few months of "clarification" questions sure to come don't cause the same damage.

 

[clearconscience]

But in the same way it's good to keep asking questions to their ridiculous laws to make sure we get as much freedom from them as we can

 

[IronMonster]

Sometimes the problem isn't with the ATF, it's with some dumbass gun owners that keep pushing more and more stupid questions. I've seen a ton of posts from our side pushing question after question forcing the ATF's hand. How many posts have we all seen with "I sent a letter to the ATF" with questions like "so I can make a SBR by adding a brace?" Or "why should I pay the $200 tax when I can add a brace and call it a pistol?" And the always appropriate "what's the difference between an AR sbr and an AR pistol with a sig brace as I can shoot from the shoulder?"
I cringed every time I read them and knew a reversal was coming or outright ban on them. I'm happy the ATF is open to change and hope the next few months of "clarification" questions sure to come don't cause the same damage.

While I totally agree, I think you are asking a lot for people to not be stupid. For the most part, especially in groups, stupidity is the natural state of the human animal.

 

[Screach]

Just got a kriss with a brace, can't wait to shoot this thing shouldered!!!

 

[clearconscience]

That looks awesome.

I want one

 

[308]

The newer braces are more slender....for those of us with thin arms.

 

[308]

Just got a kriss with a brace, can't wait to shoot this thing shouldered!!!

View attachment 365247

You ever watch Fight Club?

 

[Hang-Man]

BATFE== DEFUND Them. GET RID OF THEM. Stick with NO INFRINGEMENT Rule.

 

[Screach]

Ya, I'm waiting for the tailhook to come out as this brace is a bit bulky. I really like the idea of having it fold as well.

I get what you mean about fight club, probably a wise consideration at this point. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[Kruel J]

The newer braces are more slender....for those of us with thin arms.

For those of us that have over a 16" bicep and a forearm to match, I prefer the fatter braces.

 

[bgdawgrr]

Kak Shockwave is my favorite brace.
ATF Says That Shouldering Shockwave Blade is Okay! | Shockwave Technologies

Mos def makes it easy to fire one handed, arm extended.

 

[etrain16]

Kak Shockwave is my favorite brace.
ATF Says That Shouldering Shockwave Blade is Okay! | Shockwave Technologies

Mos def makes it easy to fire one handed, arm extended.



View attachment 366286

Interesting to read what KAK had to say about the ATF's letter. According to that link you posted, KAK contacted the ATF directly, who CONFIRMED the letter does in fact apply to ALL BRACES, not just one model from one manufacturer:

ATF Says That Shouldering Shockwave Blade is Okay!
I just got off the phone with a very nice gentleman at ATF Tech Branch—who was fielding these calls today. (He was, understandably, very well versed on the subject—and very nice about it even though he's been on the phone all day, repeating himself ad nauseam.) I identified myself and asked him specifically if the letter that's making the rounds is limited to one company's products–or if it applies to all pistol stabilizing braces. He said: "The letter covers all pistol stabilizing braces, including the Shockwave Blade." So that settles that.

He then gave me a bit of further guidance for our customers:

1. By "permanent affixing," ATF considers that to be adding permanent Loctite to the large set screw that secures the Blade into the dimples in the KAK tube. As long as you don't red Loctite the set screw in place, ATF considers it to be "temporarily placed" and "perfectly okay to shoulder." (He didn't beat around the bush on this topic.)
2. "Length of pull"—for lack of a better word regarding pistol braces—begins to enter a "gray area" above 13.5″. Above 13.5″ begins "to enter shoulder stock area." (His words. I believe this has to do with the "comfortableness" aspect.) On an AR-15, the "length of pull" for the Blade is approximately 13.13″, so no issues there. But if you use the Blade on a firearm that requires a large adapter of some sort, please make sure that you only use the dimples up to the point that you remain below the 13.5″ length. Stay below 13.5″ and according to ATF, it's okay to shoulder a Shockwave Blade.

So there you have it. Anything you read to the contrary on a web forum, social media site, or industry blog is simple misinformation by people who are not being completely honest.

Glad to hear that others have confirmed that shouldering any brace is what the ATF meant by their letter. Also good to have some additional info on potential mods or LOP that might push your gun into a grey area.

 

[Stomper]

The newer braces are more slender....for those of us with thin arms.

Must be an engineer... probably have nice smooth hands too, huh?

 

[308]

Must be an engineer... probably have nice smooth hands too, huh?

They are luxurious

 

[Stomper]

They are luxurious

Been talkin' to Madge and using her Palmolive dish soap again?

View attachment IMG_4234.GIF

 

[Member 3687]

I understand the debate of asking stupid questions by folks and in my opinion many are from anti gun folks pushing the issue in order to force a response, but I may be wrong.

At the same time when you have a Federal agency that approved an arm brace then say it's ok to miss use it by shouldering it as long as your intent was not to miss use it to make it an SBR and then later come out and say well if miss use it by shouldering it then you redesigned it by miss using it even if you just accidentally miss used it and either way you could be charged with a felony.
Then they come out with a clarification and say it's ok to miss use it by shouldering it as long as your intent was not to miss use it to make it an SBR.

So after all that why would there be any questions.

That is like saying we need to ban FDA approved cigarettes, I mean they are FDA approved and the government would never approve anything bad.

The best thing I have heard out of this is if I take my 1911 and put it on a stack of papers did I not just redesigned it into a paper weight and it is no longer under the control of any gun law or the ATF. If this true do you like my new Thompson SMG paper weight? Redesign could work both ways.

 

[turbo_vanner]

Just looks like SB's lawyers got to them on whether or not shouldering constitutes a redesign. If lawyers actually got a court to rule on this, it shouldn't be easily overturned. Before it seemed as though there was no legal ruling, only the opinion of the ATF, which can change at will.

I've never really worried about it, but I shoot with friends in the woods. I would be hesitant to shoulder my pistol at a busy public range..... all sorts of vigilante taddletale tactical terrys out there looking for trouble in some kinda way.

 

[Ura-Ki]

My take on all of this is the A.T.F is seeing the light and is trying to rid it's self of the increased work load for what is essentially B.S. laws or findings that they were forced to make due to many politicos with an agenda. The whole form 1 and form 4 and pistol brace thing represents a serious miss use of tax payer funds, and results in a serious increase in work load. Reading the latest "White Paper" shows the A.T.F is willing to consider some pretty sweeping changes in the findings and enforcement of many unjust and infringements foisted upon us and well as them! Think of it this way, a FED agency runs most effective when they are fat and happy with noting to do, We Da Peoples are increasing the work load on them, and they are not very happy about it As for the brace thingy, It looks like the A.T.F is really wanting to wash it's hands of the whole thing and it also points to the SBR thing as being totally B.S.
Removing the form 1 and form 4 and ridding us of the whole brace thing are most likely going to happen in the near future, and it is also likely that import laws will seriously change as well. Too much regulation for what amounts to useless infringement by an agency that really wants to stop infringing!!!

 

[etrain16]

My take on all of this is the A.T.F is seeing the light and is trying to rid it's self of the increased work load for what is essentially B.S. laws or findings that they were forced to make due to many politicos with an agenda. The whole form 1 and form 4 and pistol brace thing represents a serious miss use of tax payer funds, and results in a serious increase in work load. Reading the latest "White Paper" shows the A.T.F is willing to consider some pretty sweeping changes in the findings and enforcement of many unjust and infringements foisted upon us and well as them! Think of it this way, a FED agency runs most effective when they are fat and happy with noting to do, We Da Peoples are increasing the work load on them, and they are not very happy about it As for the brace thingy, It looks like the A.T.F is really wanting to wash it's hands of the whole thing and it also points to the SBR thing as being totally B.S.
Removing the form 1 and form 4 and ridding us of the whole brace thing are most likely going to happen in the near future, and it is also likely that import laws will seriously change as well. Too much regulation for what amounts to useless infringement by an agency that really wants to stop infringing!!!

Let's hope you're right!

 

[Stomper]

Remember not to stick your boogerhook into your ear... it could break off!