ARPC surveillance cameras.

[Pepe-lepew]

Take off the tinfoil hats. Cameras are used to investigate issues when they arise. No one is sitting on them playing desk jockey RSO. There has been cameras at ARPC on some of the ranges for several years. There was information provided to the membership when it started years ago. It was also discussed how they were used at an annual meeting.

Before ARPC got cameras, I remember a story I heard from a range that was using cameras. A person found alcohol containers in a garbage can. They checked cameras and found a guy shooting on the range and going back to his car to take a break to drink. Then he later cleaned his car out, leaving evidence of his habit in the garbage.

 

[Rkangel]

Free country (sort of). You can choose whether or not being on camera makes you feel more or less free. Tinfoil aside, if you want your private 2A time to be a subpoena away from becoming lawfare by a political ambulance chaser, that's up to you. I am ok with my choice of no longer attending ARPC.

 

[User 1234]

One person's "tinfoil" conspiracy theory is another's naive complacency. Technology does get abused, and once digitized it is usually hanging around forever waiting on a government or private attorney's subpoena. Recently states have been serving investigative demands on gun-related businesses both inside and outside their states, banning telling minors about guns, and generally working overtime to F over gun owners. Building a nice visual record of everything that every member and guest possessed and did at the range is convenient for those purposes.

The recent HD video recording requirement that Washington imposed on FFLs was done because it works against FFLs and customers' best interests. Volunteering to expand that effort by creating a similar video database seems shortsighted to me. I'd leave my club if they did it.

Hopefully ARPC has thought these issues through and guarded against some of these risks.

 

[spookshack]

No one is sitting on them playing desk jockey RSO.

My 1st hand experience says otherwise (not at ARPC, but another club).

While cameras can be a resource for addressing violations in real time, or after the fact via a viewing of the recorded footage, it's not always clear cut or a black and white event. Depending on the quality of the image (camera resolution) and the angle of the camera, there may not be definitive proof than an actual safety violation occurred ( think of instant replay in the NFL).

I know of at least one gun club with several rules that are more restrictive than ARPC. Even if ARPC was to add more cameras, they would still have a ways to go to catch the other club. I consider my time at the club to be my refuge. The one place to get away from it all. We are being watched 24/7 from cameras of all types (work, traffic, shopping, neighbor's Ring/Nest, etc), I'm always safe (I hold current NRA certs in Chief RSO, RSO, etc).

I'm already vetted and don't need or want extra scrutiny when none is required. While I'm firmly against cameras and/or the adding of new one's, it is not a dealbreaker for me at this time. If some of the other rules I currently agree with, become more restrictive, I will evaluate them and then decide if renewing my membership is warranted or not.

To reiterate, I have been with ARPC for over five years now and definitely have enjoyed my time here. I also understand that running a gun club is not a simple task and there may be decisions that come down that I may not agree with, nor can you make every member happy all the time. Inevitably, someone is going to get butt hurt. As always, YMMV

 

[Skully]

A good way to alienate paying members is to treat them as school children and question their ability to be responsible . I had thought of joining the club but I and possibly others now find it a none attractive venture . Actions have consequences .

There's better options ARPC is a more of a fudd range these days. Used to do cool machine gun shoots and not have RSOs who suck. If your not at the age of retirement RSOs love to stalk your bay to nag at you for doing stuff wrong. Though most here will defend it because MuH pRiVaTe BuIsSnEsS. Also really a scam forcing those 200$ initiation fees or whatever they are now for a 1 hour class. Only real benefit is convenience, but the range has gone very downhill in recent years.

 

[Mikej]

Interesting, informative read.

Might this mean that the several year waiting period for a membersip will disappear? And prices drop some? If it did, I would probably jump on a membership if I didn't need to drive all the way across and back through the nightmare the dumbass potland drivers have created. There have been cameras at Johnson Creek GC since probably, those things were on the market.

Oh, I neve shoot "Pantless".

 

[P7M13]

A good way to alienate paying members is to treat them as school children and question their ability to be responsible . I had thought of joining the club but I and possibly others now find it a none attractive venture . Actions have consequences .

Many of them *are* school children -- whiny, snotty and nasty. Whether or not the cameras are used properly is irrelevant. Their house, their rules.

Don't like cameras? Pay attention next time you're in the woods. Go at night with IR vision and look for the pulses from cameras. I have encountered cameras facing the roads into the forest at least ten times in the past four years. The first two surprised me, then I made a point to look for them.

I'd take her everywhere.

Hell, i'd never get out of bed.

As far as the consequence of the clubs actions, that has been considered.

 

[fifthgenhunter]

We have entered into the Age of The Great American Entitlement.

The in com poops are ruining the old way of life that so many us have enjoyed.

The range I belong to just caught a Chinese national doing Inner tube You Web videos at night.

He had access through his wifey.

Due to Cell Cam footage , that was stopped!

 

[PiratePast40]

There's better options ARPC is a more of a fudd range these days. Used to do cool machine gun shoots and not have RSOs who suck. If your not at the age of retirement RSOs love to stalk your bay to nag at you for doing stuff wrong. Though most here will defend it because MuH pRiVaTe BuIsSnEsS. Also really a scam forcing those 200$ initiation fees or whatever they are now for a 1 hour class. Only real benefit is convenience, but the range has gone very downhill in recent years.

LOL - Do you ever go to the range? Do you go to the range days or annual ARPC Experience event? Do you participate in USPSA or even the monthly steel challenge matches? Do you participate in the shotgun competitions?

It's hardly a fudd range. The advanced handgun and rifle classes are, IMO, a fantastic experience and well worth the time and money. As far as RSO's harassing you, I've never had that experience. I did have one explain the rules in bay 7 to me. I was a little hard headed and really didn't understand until he explained it in a different manner. Now, I happen to be an old fart, but I am the current holder of the dueling tree trophy, and I was shooting against 30 to 70 year olds. The point of my telling you that is that the range offers experiences and activities to all age ranges. Well, there is a bit of bragging in there since the traveling trophy is mostly for bragging rights!

The range is making constant improvements, and, as stated previously, you're doing yourself a disservice if you don't attend the meetings and express your concerns. My only concern about the cameras is what law enforcement thinks of them being used to record their training sessions. Spitballing here, but I would think that some agencies would not like their training and drill techniques having the possibility of being made public.

As far as other improvements, the new bays and facilities are significant financial investments and the club does not use credit for any of these. Lights and wi-fi infrastructure are fantastic improvements. The hunter sight-in days are also an amazing value to the hunting community, or anyone that would like to sight in their guns.

Some have mentioned a several year waiting list for membership but this is the first I've heard of that at ARPC. Tri-County and Dundee have waiting lists but i don't think that ARPC has one.

You mentioned the machine gun shoots, but the reason for not being able to support those was made by the insurance companies, not the club. That was fully explained in the newsletter when it occurred.

ARPC is one of the premier ranges in the region. There are a ton of reasons for having security cameras and it's not a show stopper for me at all.

 

[Mikej]

Some have mentioned a several year waiting list for membership but this is the first I've heard of that at ARPC. Tri-County and Dundee have waiting lists but i don't think that ARPC has one.

Oh hell! ARPC! Not Tri-County. DERP!

Love your "Gun Shows"! Never miss one.

 

[Camelfilter]

There's better options ARPC is a more of a fudd range these days. Used to do cool machine gun shoots and not have RSOs who suck. If your not at the age of retirement RSOs love to stalk your bay to nag at you for doing stuff wrong. Though most here will defend it because MuH pRiVaTe BuIsSnEsS. Also really a scam forcing those 200$ initiation fees or whatever they are now for a 1 hour class. Only real benefit is convenience, but the range has gone very downhill in recent years.

Interesting.

We found ARPC to be a great club before moving to Southern Oregon. Many disciplines, set hours (open well after sunset in winter), open 365.

Pretty much, the only thing lacking was long range. They had full auto subclub meet up ?monthly, as well as full auto at the far end bay whenever you wanted.

This was AFTER the annual full auto event went away, which was an insurance issue.

They had started cameras on the main rifle range before we moved. No bother.

Our current clubs? Cameras. No bother.

Actually really like them when using our indoor club, because it's open key fob access 24/7 365 (excepting events). Cameras inside & out, with TV showing parking - so no surprises when leaving...

As towards someone TRYING to do something untoward with camera footage? I suppose anything is possible, however it's camera footage. It plainly is what it is. We don't do anything unsafe nor unsavory. So again, no bother.

Our indoor club bounced a member who used a rifle caliber rifle (unsafe & against club rules) & had damaged a backstop frame.

Our outdoor club RSO's shared footage of an injury due to an unsafe practice...optic height over bore / shooting too close to a rebar target holder causing ricochet & injury.

 

[WillametteWill]

There's better options ARPC is a more of a fudd range these days. Used to do cool machine gun shoots and not have RSOs who suck. If your not at the age of retirement RSOs love to stalk your bay to nag at you for doing stuff wrong. Though most here will defend it because MuH pRiVaTe BuIsSnEsS. Also really a scam forcing those 200$ initiation fees or whatever they are now for a 1 hour class. Only real benefit is convenience, but the range has gone very downhill in recent years.

So, a range that allows full auto, has shooting bays (and is adding more) that allow you do all kinds of shooting, has steel, lets you bring your own steel, runs one of the, if not the best gun show in the region, has all kinds of action shoots, classes, youth shoots...and STILL has plenty of room for members to have open range time...

Yet this qualifies them as a fudd range? Seriously?

I've had numerous interactions with the RSOs at the range and every single one has been fine, friendly even. And I'm not retired even. If you don't wish to be "nagged" for doing something wrong, there is a really simple solution...follow the rules. If you don't like them, you are welcome to find another range. Oh wait, ARPC has the most open shooting policies of any range from Eugene to Portland so enjoy the woods. Not trying to be a jerk, but it sounds like you want to be able to shoot however you want, pretty much for free, and not be bothered by anyone. Since they have to pay the whopping insurance premium to keep the doors open, they have an obligation to the members to reduce the chance of injuries or worse.

 

[Robear]

Douglas Ridge Rifle Club has cameras on all of the ranges. They haven't caused any problems and I'm not aware of any complaints. I think the cameras help keep the range safe.

 

[MannyGlocks]

Am I the only one here who watches Youtube videos of various first Amendment advocates who record people/businesses while in public?

If so, there's no expectation of privacy while one is in public, therefore if some random person is recording people if he's doing so while remaining on a public sidewalk or public right of way, he's legally allowed to do so.

Yes, it really angers some folk...but, there's nothing they can do to stop it.

Oh, yes, they can 'illegally' attack the videographer, but there's serious legal consequences if they do...

 

[Howard1955]

I think I need to be edumuhcated.

Why does everyone have a hardon for poor Elmer Fudd?

He's lived long enough to outgrow his jackassery, and to learn to be polite and careful.

Why the harsh words for the Fudds?

 

[DirectDrive]

I'm curious to know what other members feel about surveillance cameras being installed in the new shooting bays at the Albany Rifle and Pistol Club.
I have mixed feelings about them, but at the end of the day, I don't like them. I put them in the same category as speed and red light cameras.
I'm a conscientious and safe firearms enthusiast but I don't like giving up my privacy because someone might have violated range rules.

I wouldn't see it any different than having an RSO present.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

Before ARPC got cameras, I remember a story I heard from a range that was using cameras. A person found alcohol containers in a garbage can. They checked cameras and found a guy shooting on the range and going back to his car to take a break to drink. Then he later cleaned his car out, leaving evidence of his habit in the garbage.

I wonder how many of us read that and went . . .

 

[Member 45541]

Just renewed my membership there yesterday. Been a member for more than 8 years. I think ARPC is a great club and worth every penny for me. I'm disabled and the shooting I do, it would cost me more than my yearly membership to have to drive up in the hills and back somewhere every time. (yes, I added it up!) So far, I've had no issues with RSO's, but did see some young idiots performing unsafe practices. I have no issues with the camera thing. Also, the ARPC Gun Shows are my favorite to attend.

 

[Mikej]

Oh, yes, they can 'illegally' attack the videographer, but there's serious legal consequences if they do...

Except if it's Andy Gno, in potland. No consequences there.

Five Days After Attack, Andy Ngo Releases Statement Confirming He Was Chased and Beaten in Portland

www.wweek.com

He was awarded monetary damages but those muggs don't work, so I doubt there was a penny to Andy.

 

[RVTECH]

Yet this qualifies them as a fudd range? Seriously?

Someone please correct me IF I am wrong but am I seeing possible 'generational dissension' with some of the members of ARPC?

I am NOT a member so this is just an assumption but from the pics on the website it looks like a great place. Clean, well maintained and dedicated to a positive shooting experience for all it's members providing they follow the rules and regulations with digression however from what I have read there seem to be some who seem to disregard the 'traditional' aspects of the range and believe it should be a 'free for all' for whatever and however they want.

Again, not a member, no 'dog in the fight' and this is just my 'assessment' from what I am reading.