Armed ATF Agents Show up at Gun Owner's Home Unannounced, to Inspect Lawfully Purchased Guns

[Ura-Ki]

I remember an FFL friend telling me about something similar happening to another one of his customers, and this was maybe 15 years ago.

The guy found a great deal on police trade-in Glocks, and bought something like ten of them. Apparently this was a bit of a red flag since the average person doesn't do that unless they're reselling them for double on the street. Honestly I can understand that suspicion.

They showed up at his door wanting to see the guns. He showed them to them, they said thank you and left.

He told me the story because I was buying several old handguns. I never got any visitors though. Apparently the ATF isn't terribly interested in obsolete guns like Nagant revolvers.

Dad and I did that with the Police trade in Berettas, bought 4 each! Never had the AFT stop by for a visit, and we still have most of them, having gifted one each to my brothers!

 

[Paolung]

They can show up and ask all they want, but they aren't getting answers or coming in without a warrant.

 

[kmk1012]

Back when Saiga's were $185 I knew a guy who bought ten at one time. No visits for him but that was a long time back.

 

[raftman]

Back when Saiga's were $185 I knew a guy who bought ten at one time. No visits for him but that was a long time back.

Saigas are rifles though… on a national level, I think FFL's are only required to report multiple handgun purchases… though I think there might be an exception in certain states (those bordering Mexico) which must also report multiple purchases of certain kinds of rifles.

 

[CountryGent]

Saigas are rifles though… on a national level, I think FFL's are only required to report multiple handgun purchases… though I think there might be an exception in certain states (those bordering Mexico) which must also report multiple purchases of certain kinds of rifles.

Correct.

 

[gmerkt]

In this particular encounter, there were two ATF agents and one Delaware state trooper. What was the role of the trooper? Is it normal protocol for ATF agents making a house call to take along a local or state LEO?

If they (the felons) are too dangerous to be entusted with the responsibility of the full 2A, then they are too dangerous to be allowed to be roaming free in society.

Good point, but I suppose this falls under the concept of sentencing guidelines. Meaning, non-violent felons typically get shorter sentences. Denying felons legal access to firearms post confinement is perhaps a way of keeping them one step further away from temptation. Personally, I don't find it unreasonable to deny felons the right to own firearms. The remedy is restoration of rights via the courts, which allows for some mitigation of the broad brush approach.

 

[oa98pistol512]

Any brand new gun is traced by taxes to end user. Used guns are a little harder to track with just a transfer. Just a FYI

 

[CamoDeafie]

In this particular encounter, there were two ATF agents and one Delaware state trooper. What was the role of the trooper? Is it normal protocol for ATF agents making a house call to take along a local or state LEO?


Good point, but I suppose this falls under the concept of sentencing guidelines. Meaning, non-violent felons typically get shorter sentences. Denying felons legal access to firearms post confinement is perhaps a way of keeping them one step further away from temptation. Personally, I don't find it unreasonable to deny felons the right to own firearms. The remedy is restoration of rights via the courts, which allows for some mitigation of the broad brush approach.

The issue is that I believe SCOTUS or one of the Fed district Courts, have ruled absolutely that free men/women, including ex convicts, including felons have self defense rights. However more often than not, the ex-convicts are legally unable to exercise their self defense rights without violating certain terms and conditions of their release. And we all know that it is relatively easy for criminals to acquire illegal weapons/guns one way or other... so... my stand is... don't punish those who have proven themselves responsible.. and don't let those very specific, violent, unrepentant criminals free. Either let them die in prison, or speed up execution procedures. Or just ship them out to the military for use in actual warfighting if we ever go back to total war (right... )

 

[red442joe]

Reporting Multiple Firearms Sales | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

The Gun Control Act (GCA) of 1968 requires federal firearms licensees (FFLs) to send a report to ATF when there is a sale of multiple firearms to the same purchaser within a certain time period. ATF uses the information gathered from multiple sales transactions to investigate possible firearms...

www.atf.gov

From the webpage:

Reporting Multiple Firearms Sales
The Gun Control Act (GCA) of 1968 requires federal firearms licensees (FFLs) to send a report to ATF when there is a sale of multiple firearms to the same purchaser within a certain time period.
ATF uses the information gathered from multiple sales transactions to investigate possible firearms trafficking cases. If one or more firearms recovered from a crime are part of a multiple purchase, this could be an indicator of potential firearms trafficking. Crime guns recovered shortly after a multiple sale is known as a short time-to-crime ratio.

SO Much wrong with that pargraph....

Joe

 

[Yarome]

The issue is that I believe SCOTUS or one of the Fed district Courts, have ruled absolutely that free men/women, including ex convicts, including felons have self defense rights. However more often than not, the ex-convicts are legally unable to exercise their self defense rights without violating certain terms and conditions of their release.

Having the right to defend oneself does/may not translate into... "with a firearm"... and suspect that to be a willful/hopeful misinterpretation of any SCOTUS or Fed court opinions on the matter.

You murdered, with a firearm, you did your 10... here! Have another! I don't think so.

Much like SCOTUS ruling that every person has the absolute right to freedom. So... that means prisons are unconstituational? For that matter, LEO arresting and detaining criminals are a violation of basic human rights?

 

[The Heretic]

I heard a rumor that creating and using a UPIN can leave a citizen open to this type of treatment. Basically an inventory of any firearms purchased when a UPIN was entered and submitted on 4473.

I doubt it, but I have been wrong before. I think that is just probably one of those urban myths.

I use my SSN, but I don't really have to as my name is extremely unique; I don't believe there is another person in the world with my full legal name, much less one that lives in the USA, or that has my physical metrics, and especially that is male gender (almost everybody with my first name spelling in the USA is female). But that is beside the point.

I would not be surprised if the ATF showed up at my door; I have bought a lot of guns and ammo over the past 10 years. My bet is the ATF is fishing for people who do straw purchases. They would need to do this where BGCs are required by state law.

 

[nehalemguy]

Dad and I did that with the Police trade in Berettas, bought 4 each! Never had the AFT stop by for a visit, and we still have most of them, having gifted one each to my brothers!

Maybe someone with a current FFL can chime in on what the current method is, but I remember the multiple gun sale notification being a separate form that was filed out and sent in. Has that method changed?


-E-

 

[The Heretic]

Having the right to defend oneself does/may not translate into... "with a firearm"... and suspect that to be a willful/hopeful misinterpretation of any SCOTUS or Fed court opinions on the matter.

You murdered, with a firearm, you did your 10... here! Have another! I don't think so.

Much like SCOTUS ruling that every person has the absolute right to freedom. So... that means prisons are unconstituational? For that matter, LEO arresting and detaining criminals are a violation of basic human rights?

I would extend that to anybody who was convicted of a violent crime, whether with fists or firearms. Once they show a propensity towards unjustified violence (not in self-defense), then I think that disqualifies them from having a firearm, although I would maybe allow them to go to court and ask for a waiver after something like a decade of good behavior.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Easy.

You murdered someone premediated? Hanged/executed.

You accidentally killed someone?
20 years, MAYBE good behavior out at end.

You used weapons (of any kind) to rob/loot/assault someone? 30 years to life.

You raped someone? 25 years and you're now free meat for others in prison, ie, they're allowed to rape you with no consequences. Even more years or execute if you raped a minor, regardless of your chosen gender. Perhaps coupled with chemical castration/sterilization.

You're involved with gangs and used weapons acquired through other than legal means and used them in committing crimes? Execution or life in prison, or serve in the military in an unit in the places where cartels and ISIS are... if you survive.... great, stay there. If not. Eh.


You used hard drugs? Eh. Depends.

You drove drunk... eh, again. depends.


Swift. Fair. Severe.

None of this "released on bond", none of this "oh, pandemic so release into society and not follow up". None of this "oh, 5 years after brutal murder and back into society without any follow up".

 

[The Heretic]

 

[Dr Prepper]

I don't like the way they are doing it, but at the same time I'm glad to see them at least trying to slow illegal straw purchases. We are all wanting to stop illegal activity, yes?

-E-

Oh yeah! You mean... Like the government? Yeah I am. You first! Then I'll comply.
Remember a government should fear it's constituency not the other way around.

 

[The Heretic]

If straw purchases are so the owners don't have to register their guns, but are otherwise safe/legal to own the guns (i.e., they are not a felon, but might live in a locale where the gun is illegal/etc.), then I don't have a problem with straw purchases - theoretically (in practice, I would not do it myself - too many ways for it to go bad).

 

[CountryGent]

Maybe someone with a current FFL can chime in on what the current method is, but I remember the multiple gun sale notification being a separate form that was filed out and sent in. Has that method changed?

It is a Form 3310.4. A PDF copy gets emailed to BATFE and they send back an acknowledgement of receipt. A hardcopy is mailed to the local CLEO. (There is a handful of states where certain rifles require the same, but the rest just have to do the multiple handgun sales form, when required.)

 

[RobMa]

 

[Dr Prepper]

Dad and I did that with the Police trade in Berettas, bought 4 each! Never had the AFT stop by for a visit, and we still have most of them, having gifted one each to my brothers!

Oh there's still time...

You guys need signs that says:
how pro gun am I? Warning: My dog will shoot YOUR dog! (Or rather Alfabet agents, dealers choice.)