AR PLATFORM OR AK PLATFORM?

[The Governor]

if you are not factoring in looks(how pretty of how ugly either one is), which platform, ar or ak, do you prefer in a 223/5.56/7.62x39 caliber rifle, and why? it is my understanding that ak's are a lot more tolerant to being bathed in mud/dirt etc & still able to perform well(and I think the ak has been around much longer). I have also been told with an ar you should only use brass cased ammo and not steel cased as it is too hard on the bcg, etc, whereas the ak will eat almost anything you feed it. the same people also say that you can shoot an ak until the barrel is red hot, dip it in cold water, and keep shooting it but that you wouldn't be able to do that with an ar. Sorry if this is too much in one post, but please share your thoughts with me on this.

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[oli700]

tough set of questions there.....so much personal preference and opinion mixed in to the answers.

I like them both but prefer an AR. Just like the way they feel and shoot. I think either is a good choice. AR's got a bad rap on reliability when the military decided to change the original powder in 5.56 to a ball powder that gave off excessive fouling to save money

I think the BCG can put up with steel case but they can be hard on the extractor, I have shot a bit of it and not a problem, I have stuck a steel case but that was in a Mini 14

not for sure on the mud bath but due to design differences the AK will crap the crud out better, AR wont let it in as easy if the dust cover is closed

not sure about the dipping the barrel in water thing on a hot AR

 

[Inspector]

I've owned an AK, an SKS, and an AR with two uppers (one 16" the other a heavy 22" varminter).

I prefer the AR. I started out with bolt action rifles. They are usually very accurate. The AR action mimics the bolt action. AR's tend to be much more accurate. The 223/5.56 is a flatter shooting faster cartridge than the 7.62X39.

It comes down to personal choice. If you get into reloading, you can make .223 ammo for pretty darned cheap.

AR's aren't as finicky as some people think. I've run 200 rounds through mine without cleaning and never had an issue. I'd trust it with my life.

The best group I ever shot with my AK was 4". The SKS was about 5". My AR is easily capable of 1/2" groups if I do my part. I'm an accuracy nut so this appeals to me. Fact of the matter is, I don't have the SKS or AK anymore.

 

[BAMCIS]

It comes down to personal choice. If it helps I have three BCM AR's. But I also got a lot of high dollar gov't training on them too courtesy of the United States Marine Corps.

I shoot any ammo I want through them. They all work just fine. Steel cased Russian crap, to factory UMC stuff, to reloads. I don't worry to much about breaking an extractor or something. Anyone who has an AR will tell you they are really easy to replace.

 

[simon99]

I'm with BAMCIS....I have put a lot of rounds downrange with an AR/M4 rifle and I prefer them to AK's. I think AR's get a bad rap from the first versions of the M16 when Armalite was still working out the bugs at GI's lives expense in Vietnam. They're pretty bomb-proof now.

 

[oli700]

The AR-15 was originally desgned around IMR-3031 powder. This was the propellant originally used by Bob Hutton, the guy who invented the .223. He was a friend of Eugene Stoner and that's how he got involved designing the round.
The IMR-3031 burn rate was used to calculate the mass of the bolt and carrier together with the mass of the buffer.

Original .223 ammo was loaed with IMR-4475 which was a mass-production version of IMR-3031. And when used with IMR-4475, the AR-15 was superbly reliable. In July 1962, the AR-15 was tested in Vietnam and 80,000 rounds were fired. Over the course of firing 80,000 rounds there were no parts breakages.

The rifle was perfect until a change was made in the AR-15's propellant. The powder was changed from IMR-4475 to a ball powder, WC-846. Now this ball powder ruined the rifle. WC-846 contained calcium carbonate which caused fouling in the AR-15's gas-tube. Even worse, this ball powder burned at a slower rate.

Using a slower burning powder in the AR-15 created the following problems:

1. A higher residual chamber pressure. This created a tendency for the fired cartridge to stick in the chamber;

2. The higher residual pressure causes higher bolt velocity. The bolt wants to unlock right NOW and when combined with a sticky case, the extractor can yank the rim right off the cartridge case.
3. Higher bolt velocity also leads to increased wear and parts started to break.

It was originally stated that the AR 15 wouldn't need maintenance to keep firing but I don't see how anything could be maintenance free if it's made to shoot bullets, no matter how clean the powder burned

The Filthy 14 had a lot of rounds put through it by just keeping it , BCG , wet with oil

I reload all my AR rounds with 3031 till the powder shortage, now I have loaded 500 round with CFE 223 and shot a couple hundred just the other day and it seems real nice, I also ran across H335 , I haven't ever used H335 but beggars cant be choosy as I am down to 3 pounds of 3031....sad

Also I think if you stick with the proper parts made to spec on materials and measurements you are golden

 

[BAMCIS]

The AR-15 was originally desgned around IMR-3031 powder. This was the propellant originally used by Bob Hutton, the guy who invented the .223. He was a friend of Eugene Stoner and that's how he got involved designing the round.
The IMR-3031 burn rate was used to calculate the mass of the bolt and carrier together with the mass of the buffer.

Original .223 ammo was loaed with IMR-4475 which was a mass-production version of IMR-3031. And when used with IMR-4475, the AR-15 was superbly reliable. In July 1962, the AR-15 was tested in Vietnam and 80,000 rounds were fired. Over the course of firing 80,000 rounds there were no parts breakages.

The rifle was perfect until a change was made in the AR-15's propellant. The powder was changed from IMR-4475 to a ball powder, WC-846. Now this ball powder ruined the rifle. WC-846 contained calcium carbonate which caused fouling in the AR-15's gas-tube. Even worse, this ball powder burned at a slower rate.

Using a slower burning powder in the AR-15 created the following problems:

1. A higher residual chamber pressure. This created a tendency for the fired cartridge to stick in the chamber;

2. The higher residual pressure causes higher bolt velocity. The bolt wants to unlock right NOW and when combined with a sticky case, the extractor can yank the rim right off the cartridge case.
3. Higher bolt velocity also leads to increased wear and parts started to break.

It was originally stated that the AR 15 wouldn’t need maintenance to keep firing but I don’t see how anything could be maintenance free if it’s made to shoot bullets, no matter how clean the powder burned

The Filthy 14 had a lot of rounds put through it by just keeping it , BCG , wet with oil

I reload all my AR rounds with 3031 till the powder shortage, now I have loaded 500 round with CFE 223 and shot a couple hundred just the other day and it seems real nice, I also ran across H355 , I haven’t ever used H355 but beggars cant be choosy as I am down to 3 pounds of 3031….sad

Also I think if you stick with the proper parts made to spec on materials and measurements you are golden

The most informative post on here in a long time.



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[ZA_Survivalist]

AKs for me. Nothing comes close to a 7.62x39.. Except for a .308.

ARs are fun, modular..etc but the little .223/5.66 just doesn't do it for me.. But that isnt to say I don't own my fair share of them.

 

[Caveman Jim]

I trained and slept with an M16 for years and know it front to rear and sideways. That said, I am confident with the platform. I have on occasion shot (with limited time) an AK and was not impressed with it at all, seemed cheaply built with rivets (???).

It's kinda like owning an American truck (Ford, Dodge or Chevy) or an import (Toyota), it's a personal choice and I will stick with American products that will transport or save my life...
The choice is yours.

 

[erudne]

I have several ARs and I was issued two in the service.
I have a personal dislike for AKs but would carry a well made AK into battle in a heart beat, not so much an AR

 

[waltermitty]

select the one in which you have ample supply of parts and ammo

 

[Thedudez]

Both I love ar 15 and right now the ammo for the ak 74 is such a great price I will be buying one in the future

 

[Thedudez]

One thing I forgot too mention a good friend of mines once said " Aks are a lot more accurate than people think and the Ar is a lot more reliable than people think"

 

[oli700]

Everyone brings up great points

IF you decide on an AR and are interested in heavier bullets, make sure you get a 1:7 twist or 1:8 to stabilize the longer bullets.
I prefer a 1:8.....I haven't met a bullet that would fit in a mag that a 1:8 twist wouldn't stabilize and I think they shoot light bullets a little better than 1:7....55 and below grains

You cannot increase the caliber of a 5.56 obviously but you can shoot a huge variety of grains for versatility.
A 77 grain 5.56 loaded to the top end of data will come fairly close to average 124 grain 7.62x39.....within 2 or 300 Ft-lbs less and still be faster by 2 or 300 fps at the muzzle depending on barrel length
The 77 gr 5.56 will also fly flatter, less Kentuky elevation , and wont loose energy as fast at distance.

I am not an AR expert but I'm a reloading geek and love most all firearms including AK's but if I were to get a 7.62X39 platform it would be a VZ58 hands down


As far as accuracy , in my experience an AK is battle accurate all day, meaning lead on man size target within a couple hundred yards, bringing a person out of the fight
What I like about an AR is that it is a proven battle rifle that will turn around and shoot a 1 inch group at 100 yards by an average shooter and follow up is very fast , an AR will make an average shooter look above average

I think if you can afford a popular named rifle then go for it but if you cannot then don't stress , as long as you stick to mill spec parts and materials then they will all work with each other without a hitch. I was burned by a short cut once on a bolt that was not made of Carpenter 158, it was made with a lesser steel and was not hardened properly to boot.....it lasted about 200 rounds. So measurement in spec and materials to spec then the maker matters little

 

[Thedudez]

Everyone brings up great points

IF you decide on an AR and are interested in heavier bullets, make sure you get a 1:7 twist or 1:8 to stabilize the longer bullets.
I prefer a 1:8.....I haven't met a bullet that would fit in a mag that a 1:8 twist wouldn't stabilize and I think they shoot light bullets a little better than 1:7....55 and below grains

You cannot increase the caliber of a 5.56 obviously but you can shoot a huge variety of grains for versatility.
A 77 grain 5.56 loaded to the top end of data will come fairly close to average 124 grain 7.62x39.....within 2 or 300 Ft-lbs less and still be faster by 2 or 300 fps at the muzzle depending on barrel length
The 77 gr 5.56 will also fly flatter, less Kentuky elevation , and wont loose energy as fast at distance.

I am not an AR expert but I'm a reloading geek and love most all firearms including AK's but if I were to get a 7.62X39 platform it would be a VZ58 hands down


As far as accuracy , in my experience an AK is battle accurate all day, meaning lead on man size target within a couple hundred yards, bringing a person out of the fight
What I like about an AR is that it is a proven battle rifle that will turn around and shoot a 1 inch group at 100 yards by an average shooter and follow up is very fast , an AR will make an average shooter look above average

I think if you can afford a popular named rifle then go for it but if you cannot then don't stress , as long as you stick to mill spec parts and materials then they will all work with each other without a hitch. I was burned by a short cut once on a bolt that was not made of Carpenter 158, it was made with a lesser steel and was not hardened properly to boot.....it lasted about 200 rounds. So measurement in spec and materials to spec then the maker matters little

Everything said is good info only thing though a 20in ar has a lot more muzzle velocity than a 14.5 or 16 and a farther reach

 

[oli700]

18 inch
Rifle gas
Rifle buffer
is my favorite

 

[Thedudez]

18 inch
Rifle gas
Rifle buffer
is my favorite

Sounds like the DMR am gonna build

 

[JohnnyD]

You really can't go wrong either way.

 

[H2O MAN]

I have one of each. 7.62x39 Norinco AK and a 5.56 NATO Daewoo.
Both rifles have their pros & cons, and both are very reliable rifles.

The more quality tools in your tool box the better.

 

[Guilty]

AR15 for me, hands down. The AR15 platform is reliable, durable, lightweight, very accurate, easy to shoot, easy maintenance, parts are readily available, simple to modify to users personal taste and fit, uses common 5.56 ammunition and the ammunition is easily reloadable.