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Neither. CZ-58. Lighter, more accurate than an AK, simpler than an AK, just as reliable, shoots the bigger, cheaper round whether steel or brass. Parts availability; not as good as the AR or AK so I'll ratpack my own.... but if we get to the point of being somewhat self reliant, it's going to mean just that, cuz the UPS truck may not be rolling to bring us parts anyway.
 
Neither. CZ-58. Lighter, more accurate than an AK, simpler than an AK, just as reliable, shoots the bigger, cheaper round whether steel or brass. Parts availability; not as good as the AR or AK so I'll ratpack my own.... but if we get to the point of being somewhat self reliant, it's going to mean just that, cuz the UPS truck may not be rolling to bring us parts anyway.
Ive toyed with the idea of getting one.
$499-$400(when on sale, WITH mags!)

But the biggest drawback for me was that it didn't accept standard AKM magazines.. Of which Im heavily invested in.
 
Neither. CZ-58. Lighter, more accurate than an AK, simpler than an AK, just as reliable, shoots the bigger, cheaper round whether steel or brass. Parts availability; not as good as the AR or AK so I'll ratpack my own.... but if we get to the point of being somewhat self reliant, it's going to mean just that, cuz the UPS truck may not be rolling to bring us parts anyway.

Holy cow! I love it when a statement is so easy to refute. Let's see...

AKM :

Weight 3.1 kg (6.83 lb)
Cartridge 7.62×39mm M43

CZ58 (VZ58) :

Weight 3.1 kg (6.8 lb)
Cartridge 7.62×39mm M43

Internals :

AKMS_and_M16_field_stripped.jpe
SA_58_FIELD_STRIPPED.jpg
 
Yup...mags are proprietary...completely different, a bit larger but lighter (aluminum)...get 4 w/ a leather bag for $99. I've been wholly impressed with my CZ. I own 2 Yugo AKs and 2 Rock River ARs....
A lot of gun owners spend a lot of time analyzing, planning for and constantly digesting info on weapons for an apocalyptic event.
I met a former Marine sniper years ago who owned only one rifle, his fathers Marlin 336 in 30.30, built in 1948. This guy simply said to me: "If the SHTF, I'm just gonna pop someone and take the gun I want or need that day." I quit worrying about it so much and just made myself embrace my CZ.
The CZ (for me) fits my criteria of, biggest bang, lightest package, relatively common and cheap ammo (for proficiency), reliablilty, accuracy (w/o dependancy on optics or batteries) and will take down any critter on our continent that we're likely to meet. It's even concealable under a coat.
 
But there's more to it than that.....Yes, the very lightest variant of the AKs is comparable to the CZ-58 but there are so many variants.
I'm thoroughly confused as to what fits what in the AKs...Only the Yugos bolt stays open after the last round.....then there's that Loooong stroke of that piston which affects accuracy and follow up. I have only owned AKs (both Yugos)...My CZ seems to be a full third smaller, weighs a lot less, kicks less and I don't have to pay attention when I order parts or mags.
I can keep it running with a shoelace and used motor oil....plus all the other advantages I've addressed.
I know you're an AK expert and live to attack the opinion of someone like me on the internet. I'm not even gonna try to argue with you. Ask a hundred guys and get a hundred different opinions.
It's simpler for me.
I'm the only one that counts.
Period.
 
I don't think either rifle is a bad choice. It's kind of like choosing good versus good.

I will say however, as an AK owner, I really LOVE my Arsenal. It's definitely my "go to rifle" and the rifle I enjoy shooting the most. And customizing an AK isn't as hard as people think. Sure, here in the US, there isn't a gigantic number of sellers of parts like there is for an AR, but in a way, it makes it a lot easier to narrow down the best options for everything from mounting a scope to changing the Commie stock to a telescoping stock.

The real questions are: what rifle do you feel comfortable with using and practicing with? What are your financial and time constraints (parts, AMMO, etc.)?
 
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But there's more to it than that.....Yes, the very lightest variant of the AKs is comparable to the CZ-58 but there are so many variants.

Comparing a whole platform to a particular model of another platform... not a very valid comparison. You really need to compare AKM against the CZ58, as both were
designed and went into production around the same time - late 50's.

I'm thoroughly confused as to what fits what in the AKs...

Not a unique problem of AK variants. I've got a Sig 516 AR, and no quad rail is going to fit it except for the one produced by Sig.

Only the Yugos bolt stays open after the last round.....

A nice to have for some people, but not critical. For example, HK's don't have automatic bolt hold open, yet they're currently issued to many
SWAT teams and even SEALs.

then there's that Loooong stroke of that piston which affects accuracy and follow up. I

I don't think long stroke itself is the problem. Problem is the shift of mass. The more mass is moving during the shot, the more impact
it will have on the accuracy. Nonetheless, long stroke is used in many weapon systems. Sig 55x is one notable example. It was
created more than 40 years after AK47, and largely borrows its design including the long stroke piston. It's also very accurate.
Which also brings another point - 7.62x39 is notable for its poor ballistics. 5.45 AK variants are known to be more accurate
due to better ballistics and lower recoil of the low-impluse round.

have only owned AKs (both Yugos)...My CZ seems to be a full third smaller, weighs a lot less,

Well, there you go. Yugos (I assume M70 of some sorts) are massively overbuilt, utilizing RPK receivers (1.5mm vs 1mm on AKM), and
are heavier than many other variants :

Weight 3.70 kg (8.16 lb)

kicks less

Perceived recoil is a product of caliber, mass of the weapon system and effectiveness of the compensation device. Since we're talking
same caliber, lighter mass on the CZ58, then there are several possible explanations. Better muzzle device (which I doubt), stock with
better buttpad (possible), or just psychology :D

and I don't have to pay attention when I order parts or mags.

If you keep on not paying attention, you may get hit by a car.

I can keep it running with a shoelace and used motor oil....plus all the other advantages I've addressed.

You also said it's simpler, but it's obvious that it has way more parts to it.

I know you're an AK expert and live to attack the opinion of someone like me on the internet. I'm not even gonna try to argue with you. Ask a hundred guys and get a hundred different opinions.
It's simpler for me.
I'm the only one that counts.
Period.

I'm not an expert, just a power user. But yeah, you've made your choice, and when you advocate it to others without some rational
support of your position, expect to be scrutinized :)
 
I have several ARs and I was issued two in the service.
I have a personal dislike for AKs but would carry a well made AK into battle in a heart beat, not so much an AR
That's why I bought a SIG556R a month or so ago. Supposed to be as accurate as an AR but uses the 7.62X39 round. Need to get to the range with it.

Deen
NRA Life Member, Benefactor Level
"Defender of Freedom" award
NRA Recruiter
Second Amendment Foundation Member
Washington Arms Collectors Member
Arms Collectors of SW Washington Member


"Having a gun is like a parachute, if you need one and don't have it you may never need it again"
 
My 2 cents/rant:

I only own 2 rifles right now, and no. They are not an AK and an AR ;)

I have an Arsenal SLR-107F, with some accessories and I love it. My other one is a Springfield Armory M1A 'Scout Squad' (18" barrel) which I had the walnut stock on it, but decided to put an Archangel stock on instead and like it a lot.

Now both of these considered, my 'AK' (SLR-107) is my "go to" choice bar-none. Doesn't mean it's friggin perfect and will put to shame all other firearms/AR/CZ/HK/etc, this is just my personal preference. I'm very well accustomed to it, can easily fire/clean/reload/dissemble/etc my AK with ease and in a hurry if needed... Embarrassingly it even shows a little bit when I do training with my military 'issue' M4...

This being said, I decided years ago I wanted another good piece of equipment. Nope not an AR, ah... Well I already beat myself to the punchline, hence me buying an M1A (M-14). IMHO, this rifle puts the 'well wut about accuracy' argument right into perspective. Which seems to be left in the wrong context in most of the epic 'AK vs AR' debates. Generally speaking, 'combat accuracy' is the range at which 99.99% of all engagements occur which is within 300m and of that 300m most of it occurs in the first <100m. Hence why both typical AR/AK rifles are chambered in so called 'intermediate rounds'.

So if increased range + superb accuracy + semi-auto is what I want, then M1A is the choice: 7.62x51(.308)>5.56x45 or .223 (not to mention my M1A can still hold its own at close range)

Realistically speaking though, the AK or the AR is going to suit the purpose quite well for an intermediate-cartridge shooting rifle. Also the old 'can't accessorize' an AK comment is about 10 years out of style, in this day and age finding accessories for your AK isn't really that difficult. You found this forum right? You can probably use Google to find some really good companies that make AK parts/accessories as well. Now I do agree AR's still dominate the market generally speaking, but as mentioned, you can still get awesome/durable/quality stuff for your AK.

Always get slightly annoyed by the "well my AR can reach out to 1000M and put a .5" MOA group into a baby kittens face, your AK can't do that"... Well no kidding, and I doubt your ever going to be realistically using your AR at those ranges anyway, let alone hit a moving/hiding/running target right as the sun-moon-stars-universe are all perfectly aligned... If I was that worried about extreme range I wouldn't be looking at either of these two rifles, they inherently lack sufficient power at great distance because of their compromised type of cartridges. Lets not confuse the job/purpose of a 'full sized' rifle round, with an intermediate one. Like comparing a F-150 to a Titan Mack Truck, even if your truck is 'really cool'...
 
Gonna have to go AK. I've owned both AR's and AK's (and a pretty wide assortment of other intermediate-caliber, and full-caliber semi-auto rifles) and I've found no rifle that appeals to me as much as the AK does. AR's and most everything else seem like dainty Rube Goldberg machines by comparison.
 
Both platforms are battle proven and relative strengths and weaknesses are tradeoffs. Hard to pick wrong between the two unless you buy junk or put off making a decision until after you need it. I went with a different platform, but that's OT for this thread.
 
That's why I bought a SIG556R a month or so ago. Supposed to be as accurate as an AR but uses the 7.62X39 round. Need to get to the range with it.

Deen
NRA Life Member, Benefactor Level
"Defender of Freedom" award
NRA Recruiter
Second Amendment Foundation Member
Washington Arms Collectors Member
Arms Collectors of SW Washington Member


"Having a gun is like a parachute, if you need one and don't have it you may never need it again"

I put a 556R on lay-away today. I love the 7.62 x 39mm round but don't much care for my WASR platform. I'm quite excited to take the 556R out to the range!

Plus..it's a SIG!
 
if you are not factoring in looks(how pretty of how ugly either one is), which platform, ar or ak, do you prefer in a 223/5.56/7.62x39 caliber rifle, and why? it is my understanding that ak's are a lot more tolerant to being bathed in mud/dirt etc & still able to perform well(and I think the ak has been around much longer). I have also been told with an ar you should only use brass cased ammo and not steel cased as it is too hard on the bcg, etc, whereas the ak will eat almost anything you feed it. the same people also say that you can shoot an ak until the barrel is red hot, dip it in cold water, and keep shooting it but that you wouldn't be able to do that with an ar. Sorry if this is too much in one post, but please share your thoughts with me on this.
After eliminating all the B.S. you have been repeating,,, which ever you choose make sure to have spare parts etc. Put either AR or AK in my grubby hands and I will feel well armed.
What ever caliber you choose ,,Stock up!!! There are high quality Ars and AKs as well as low quality ARs and AKs, the high quality of either are the ones you want to buy.
 

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