Ammo reloading

[GUNNY]

Just wondering if any of you gents re load ammo. and if so have any for sale.
.223 or 5.56x45

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[onearmedswordsman]

Oh, brother...

The main reason I handload is to match the ammo to my rifle. Are you looking for something boutique?

Besides, I would not sell anyone my handloads because of liability reasons.

Let's see if other folks feel the same.

 

[bwells]

I don't reload and am unsure of the law, but I have heard many times that it is not legal to sell your own personal reloads. I'm sure somebody who knows better than me will know for sure, but that's what I've always heard.

 

[PhysicsGuy]

It is not legal produce and sell reloaded ammunition without the proper license and liability insurance. Also it is considered tax evasion since you are not paying the federal excise tax on ammunition.

 

[terrylf72]

Oh, brother...
The main reason I handload is to match the ammo to my rifle. Are you looking for something boutique?

Besides, I would not sell anyone my handloads because of liability reasons.
Let's see if other folks feel the same.

Absalutly agree.. I trust my handloads for myself, I couldnt in good conscience sell my reloads and trust them in someone else weapons.

It is not legal produce and sell reloaded ammunition without the proper license and liability insurance. Also it is considered tax evasion since you are not paying the federal excise tax on ammunition.

I dont think I have to tell you what they can do with that TAX right? LOL

 

[raindog]

It is not legal produce and sell reloaded ammunition without the proper license and liability insurance.

Yep - I believe that's an FFL 06.

And of course, your homeowner's insurance company will likely poop a square one when you inform them you're operating an ammunition manufacturing business in your basement.

To the original poster...reloading is not at all difficult to learn, so why not take the plunge? There's a subforum here on NWFA with people who'd be happy to give you advice.

 

[Gunner3456]

I think it's very expensive to set up to reload if you're going to do it right. I'm not sure whether I have more money in brass, primers, powder and bullets or in tools. I couldn't live without a chronograph, a tumbler, media, a primer pocket swager, and on and on. I'm sure I have more than $2k tied up in all of the above - tools and components.

Unless you're into match shooting and want to tune for your gun, or you shoot an awful lot of ammo, you might be better off just stocking up on ammo.

It's also a lot of work to reload, and you have to be detail oriented and really enjoy it. From tumbling and cleaning the brass to setting up and constantly checking the output and actually loading the rounds, you have to kiss off the value of your time.

Guys may say that they can crank out 200-300 rounds per hour on a progressive or turret press, but they aren't telling you how long it took to set up the press and powder measure or to clean the brass or to shop for the components which can be hard to find right now.

Once I have everything on hand, on the bench, the dies adjusted and the powder measure adjusted, and clean brass on the bench, I can in fact crank out about 200 rounds per hour on my Lee Classic Turret Press. If I figure all of my time as mentioned above, I'll bet it drops to more like 50 rounds per total hours invested.

Now that I own gobs of brass, I can reload for about 1/3 the cost of buying new. If I still had to buy used brass, that would probably double for that first batch.

I think you have to love doing it.

$.02

 

[raindog]

I think it's very expensive to set up to reload if you're going to do it right. I'm not sure whether I have more money in brass, primers, powder and bullets or in tools. I couldn't live without a chronograph, a tumbler, media, a primer pocket swager, and on and on. I'm sure I have more than $2k tied up in all of the above - tools and components.
[/QUOTE/

$2000!??!?

I did not spend nearly that much on reloading gear. Less than $300 - Lee Challenger press, dies, scale, etc. And that's only because I have multiple dies and some fancier tools. Heck, the RCBS kit can be had at Bi-Mart for $299 ;-)

True, I don't crank out 200 rounds an hour, but then I typically shoot 30-40 rounds in a range visit.

A pound of powder is $25ish, primers are $3.50/100, premium bullets are $30ish - so if you have the brass, that's about 60 cents a round, excluding the initial investment.

Heck, one could buy a Lee Loader and have all the gear you need to reload for less than $40. Yes, that would be very slow ;-)

Personally, I do not reload for economic reasons, but I certainly could - Federal Gold Match .308s are about $2 a round + shipping, while they can be hand-made for less than a third that price.

 

[Gunner3456]

I think it's very expensive to set up to reload if you're going to do it right. I'm not sure whether I have more money in brass, primers, powder and bullets or in tools. I couldn't live without a chronograph, a tumbler, media, a primer pocket swager, and on and on. I'm sure I have more than $2k tied up in all of the above - tools and components.
[/QUOTE/

$2000!??!?

I did not spend nearly that much on reloading gear. Less than $300 - Lee Challenger press, dies, scale, etc. And that's only because I have multiple dies and some fancier tools. Heck, the RCBS kit can be had at Bi-Mart for $299 ;-)

True, I don't crank out 200 rounds an hour, but then I typically shoot 30-40 rounds in a range visit.

A pound of powder is $25ish, primers are $3.50/100, premium bullets are $30ish - so if you have the brass, that's about 60 cents a round, excluding the initial investment.

Heck, one could buy a Lee Loader and have all the gear you need to reload for less than $40. Yes, that would be very slow ;-)

Personally, I do not reload for economic reasons, but I certainly could - Federal Gold Match .308s are about $2 a round + shipping, while they can be hand-made for less than a third that price.

How do you measure and trim for case length? How do you chamfer the cases then? How do you measure the speed of your load? How do you swage military primer pockets? How do you clean brass? I have more than $300 tied up in dies and a turret for each. I just paid $200 plus shipping for 4,000 once-fired Lake City 5.56 brass cases and I have to tumble them.

I have at least $700 worth of bullets - projectiles, not ammo. I have at least 2,000 empty cases for each of 9mm, 308, 38 special, 357 magnum, .40, 5.56, .380, 243, 270 and more. I have 15,000 primers - all I can find at "regular" prices. I have about 20# of powders because I buy any time I see "regular" prices on powders I like.

I have about $1,000 tied up in primers and powder alone, and another $700 in bullets!! That's not counting brass!!

Now that I look around, I have more than $3k tied up in equipment and components.

 

[raindog]

How do you measure and trim for case length? How do you chamfer the cases then? How do you measure the speed of your load? How do you swage military primer pockets? How do you clean brass? I have more than $300 tied up in dies and a turret for each. I just paid $200 plus shipping for 4,000 once-fired Lake City 5.56 brass cases and I have to tumble them.

Well, that wasn't everything I own, but a zip trim and steel wool (cleans just as well as a tumbler) is not outrageous.

If you're talking about owning 15,000 primers and buying brass in lots of 4,000, you're well beyond what most people load. Nothing wrong with that - indeed, I salute you! But a guy who wants to reload 100 rounds of .223 in an evening doesn't need to tie up that kind of cash.

 

[Gunner3456]

Well, that wasn't everything I own, but a zip trim and steel wool (cleans just as well as a tumbler) is not outrageous.

If you're talking about owning 15,000 primers and buying brass in lots of 4,000, you're well beyond what most people load. Nothing wrong with that - indeed, I salute you! But a guy who wants to reload 100 rounds of .223 in an evening doesn't need to tie up that kind of cash.

OK, but how do you know the speed in fps of your load since powder batches vary? Are you satisfied with leaving the carbon inside the case? How do you clean primer pockets of fouling? How do you lube those rifle cases? How do you chamfer the necks if you use the zip trim? The zip trim comes without a case length gauge, shellholder, cutter and lock stud and chamfer and deburring tool, all of which you need. Imho you might as well buy a good case trimmer, gauge and deburring tool for the money.

My point is that no matter how many reloads you make, if you want to do it right it takes equipment beyond just a press, some dies and some steel wool and the components.

$.02

 

[nixuser]

http://www.leeprecision.com/
the local dealer for lee is Ron Linder
Mobile: (503) 572-3997
E-mail: [email protected]

 

[johnboy]

If the time it takes to load your own makes it a chore or a bother to you...do not do it. If you want to control what and how much you shoot then consider loading. For me it is the only way to go for accuracy and custom tuning your ammo. (you can cutomize each load for a specific rifle/pistol) You KNOW what you have. Sure you can find good ammo and if it works for you stock up. Loading your own makes you independent of ammo supply issues when you are stocked with components. The cost to set up for loading will vary depending on your goals...volume,precision,or combination thereof.

 

[HappyRoman]

We who reload known the costs associated with loading many calibers. If one reloads a few by hand for a rifle caliber and does it on a budget, it works..

If one reloads lots of pistol ammo for one or more calibers, a progressive loader works,

If you reload lots of ammo for all your rifles and hanguns, who really knows how much might be involved..?

I believe reloading is a hobby and pasttime for the rainy days. Having the supplies, ability, equipment, and all is a blessing.. I only hope it can stay that way. AMEN, thank you LORD.

 

[SavageGerbil]

Gunner, so I'm gonna go out on a limb here and assume you aren't suggesting the Lee Classic Loader set?

In all seriousness, I snagged up the basics to start reloading, looking forward to building a brass tumbler (should be a lot of fun!)
I'm not looking for match accuracy myself, I just want some cheap, fun, light loaded rounds for polka-dotting some pistol targets. Talking about going full-bore on equipment is awesome, but can scare new kids like myself away from the hobby. The bulk of us our enthusiasts for our hobbies here, so if you get us in a little with the cheap and basic, we'll naturally migrate towards the sweet stuff and the full precision gear. Just my opinion.

Gunny, if you do buy reloads, be careful and try to get them from someone who cares if you've still got fingers after shooting, I bought some from a local for-profit reloading "company" and got a double charged .45acp round, if it wasn't for the XD's strength, well, I don't wanna think about it.

 

[Gunner3456]

Gunner, so I'm gonna go out on a limb here and assume you aren't suggesting the Lee Classic Loader set?

The Lee Classic Loader works great for me. I have both sizes of primer feeders and a turret for each set of dies. I have the powder feed extension for rifle dies and the powder feeder. I also have a stand-alone powder feeder.

I had a Lee Pro 1000 progressive loader but there was "too much happening at once" for me to feel like I could watch everything carefully. It held 3 cases at once and did several things at once, one to each case, with each pull of the lever. My new one holds just one case and waits for each die to arrive over it and do its thing. It's a bit slower but I like the output better.
Just my $.02, and just my own experience.

Also it was far more involved to change calibers on the Pro 1000 - far, far more. It also wouldn't load anything larger than a .223. No real rifle cases. The Lee Classic Loader will do all normal cases.

 

[onearmedswordsman]

+1, Gunner.

Raindog, are you sure you are tracking your reloading expenses accurately? I started reloading 10 months ago. I have tied more than $2k as well and my press is no pricy progressive, but a lowly single stage Rock Chucker.

 

[Box13]

If you keep your eyes peeled there are some good deal going aroung on reloading gear from people who get out of the habbit.Do some research...find some people who handload and maybe spend some time helping out to get the feel of it.If you like it then get a single stage press.It will always be useful even if you end up getting a progressive press.Theres several forums devoted to just handloading that are really helpful.Might even be someone here who is near enough to you to give you a feel for it...Then there is casting....dont ever start down that road...haha...Robin

 

[raindog]

OK, here's my entire reloading setup, priced. Most of it was bought online, some at Bi-Mart. These prices are pretty close to what I paid.

Lee Challenger Press $50
Lee Challenger Press Quick-Change Bushings $7.50
Lee Lube $3.09 (consumable but it lasts a long time)
Lee case trimmer (cutter & lock stud) $5
Lee chamfer tool $2.80
Lee zip trim $19
Frankfort Arsenal bullet puller $15
Lee primer pocket brush $12
RCBS swaging kit $24
Lee primer pocket cleaner $2
Lee decapper and base (for .30) $5.40
Lyman reloading manual - I think this was about $30, had it a while
A couple RCBS trays, $8 each I think
RCBS lube pad - $8 I think
RCBS electronic scale $105
Lyman electronic digital calipers $43
RCBS hand primer $32
A couple shell holder sizes for same, I think they were $3.50 each

So that is $387. Add $20 for shipping to make it $407. Keep in mind that an electronic scale and electronic calipers are more expensive than perfectly serviceable analog models.

Now for each caliber, add about $29 for a Lee deluxe or pacesetter die set, and another $5.50 for the case gauge. So $35 for each caliber. At the moment, I'm only reloading for .308.

Total investment: $407 + $35 = $442. I can't think of anything else I spent money on. I think you could easily trim $100 off that if you went with an analog caliper, an analog scale (or skip it in favor of Lee's volumetric measures), and some of the other things - e.g., the military swager, etc.

But in my case, let's say the fixed gear is $442. I also bought a chronograph, which was $90...that is not strictly necessary for reloading, but we'll add it in. $532.

Now, for rounds:

- I happen to have .308 brass
- IMR-4064 is $26/lb, and each pound is good for 160 or so rounds
- Sierra 168gr .30 HPBT Match bullets are $31 or so per hundred
- Primers are $3.50 per hundred

So, cost per round is .16 (powder) + .035 (primer) + .31 (bullet) = $.51. If I bought brass, it'd probably cost me around .30 per round, so if I was buying virgin brass, we'd be up to $.81. These rounds are designed to match Federal Gold Match ammo, which is around $2/round (if not more).

Let's say I amortize the gear over the cost of 10,000 rounds. It should easily last that long, if not much longer (!). $532/10000 = .05 per round.

Anyway, my point was that it doesn't take anything like $2,000 to get stated in reloading. Heck, 40 years ago everyone was using Lee Loaders or Lyman kits, like Mr. Lee:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeEl9wZyabc

Those kits are $40 and while it looks crude to the guys with the giant Dillon 550s, it certainly is reloading. Here's another site where a guy outlines his method, which is relatively inexpensive:

http://imakeprojects.com/Projects/how-to-reload-rifle-ammunition/

That doesn't mean it isn't easy (or fun) to tie up $2,000 in gear and consumables

There's a lot on my list that isn't strictly necessary. Again, I point to the RCBS kit, which is $299 at Bi-Mart. Someone could reload for a long time with that plus $50 in consumables.

 

[motoman98]

I remember having the brass for 30/06, it would cost almost $2.00 a box to reload them. I bought my first press(Herters), dies, scale, powder, and bullets etc. for $35 or so. Time flies, guys! :huh: