Alec Baldwin: on-set 'Rust' shooting - NEW UPDATE

[lucusloc]

I think we need to probably start another thread on it just to be sure we have touched on everything 5-6 times (kidding!).

IKR? I get that no one wants to read 20 pages before joining in to participate, but it is pretty funny how many people hit on the same exact ideas. I need to just get a template that includes all the data links, like to SAGs guidelines on actor responsibility for firearms on set (i.e. basically none) and the links of examples of real firearms being pointed at real people on sets up through modern times or how professional liability law can actually shield a person who actually did the oops from criminal and civil liability as long as there is a more responsible authority over them. The 4 rules and personal responsibility are all well an good in your living room, but they simply do not apply in a professional environment where professional liability laws are in place. Being able to copy/paste that into a reply the next time someone invokes the 4 rules as a reason for why Baldwin should hang (they really aren't) would make replies so much faster.

 

[djm68]

I've not been following the details of this story very carefully, so I might have missed something. We all understand the stupidity of pointing a gun at someone and pulling the trigger. But still, how the fu...er..bubblegum do live rounds windup in the gun? And of course, there were drugs going around as well (cocaine, of course, hollywood for you). The whole thing stinks of the steamy cesspool of hollywood...one of the many reasons my wife and I have long ago detached from 'maintain media'. All rubbish.

 

[Flopsweat]

They can't even fake a cup of coffee properly and they have to use real guns for "realism". Can't get a suppressor sound correct but they have to use a real gun for the looks.

 

[GrayGoose]

I've not been following the details of this story very carefully, so I might have missed something. We all understand the stupidity of pointing a gun at someone and pulling the trigger. But still, how the fu...er..bubblegum do live rounds windup in the gun? And of course, there were drugs going around as well (cocaine, of course, hollywood for you). The whole thing stinks of the steamy cesspool of hollywood...one of the many reasons my wife and I have long ago detached from 'maintain media'. All rubbish.

I think we should start a new thread to discuss this.

 

[lucusloc]

They can't even fake a cup of coffee properly and they have to use real guns for "realism". Can't get a suppressor sound correct but they have to use a real gun for the looks.

Different productions have different production values. Some are happy to use a nerf gun painted black, others get a hold of an actual rare antique guitar (and accidentally smash it) because they want authentic sound. If you are the former type, then yeah there probably is no excuse to have anything even remotely close to a real gun on set. If you are the later then your options are far more limited.

 

[Flopsweat]

Different productions have different production values. Some are happy to use a nerf gun painted black, others get a hold of an actual rare antique guitar (and accidentally smash it) because they want authentic sound. If you are the former type, then yeah there probably is no excuse to have anything even remotely close to a real gun on set. If you are the later then your options are far more limited.

It's just a frickin movie.

 

[64MercurysRule]

I stand behind Alec ....... Because I would never stand in front of him .

 

[lucusloc]

It's just a frickin movie.

I don't pretend to understand art. I am happy with a good story no matter how much they spent on production. But I have noticed that sometimes the people spending a bunch of money and brainpower on prop details also spend an equivalent amount of effort on the script, and that makes me happy.

 

[Flopsweat]

I don't pretend to understand art. I am happy with a good story no matter how much they spent on production. But I have noticed that sometimes the people spending a bunch of money and brainpower on prop details also spend an equivalent amount of effort on the script, and that makes me happy.

I can explain art to you. This morning, at about 7:30, I took a good long art. It was cathartic. I felt much better afterward - even walked a little better.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

It's just a frickin movie.

Nope. It's a $500 to $800 million a year industry that has a $7.7 to $1 return on investment for New Mexico alone.
That's no justification for letting Baldwin the producer walk, in fact I see it as more reason to hold him accountable so as to not endanger the cash cow

 

[lucusloc]

I can explain art to you. This morning, at about 7:30, I took a good long art. It was cathartic. I felt much better afterward - even walked a little better.

Ah yes, the Sh variation of "art." I too am familiar with those. Cathartic indeed.

 

[Flopsweat]

Nope. It's a $500 to $800 million a year industry that has a $7.7 to $1 return on investment for New Mexico alone.
That's no justification for letting Baldwin the producer walk, in fact I see it as more reason to hold him accountable so as to not endanger the cash cow

5 Billion, 5 Trillion, it's still just a movie. They have massive plot holes, horrible technical inaccuracies, and they're worried about a gun looking just exactly right. It's insanity.

 

[billdeserthills]

We already covered this way back in this thread. Most movie productions do not commission their own props, they rent stuff from prophouses. Building your own is expensive, and for most movies the juice is not worth the squeeze. If you want to use a historic setup, Like Baldwin claimed he wanted on rust, and no prophouse has the piece and/or historical accuracy you want your only real cost-effective option is to use a real example.

Now as was said earlier, there indeed are safe ways to do that too, but then we get into more hair-slicing over definitions. Hollywood has learned to be more safe with firearms over the years (often with lessons learned in blood), and there are many people in the industry that have opined that the usage of real firearms is no longer necessary. The set of the John Wick series famously used "no real firearms at all". . . until you learn that many of the "hero" guns (stuff used for closeups) were real parts, including serialized receivers. Now how complete those "not real firearms" were is unknown, but they were definitely complete enough that you cannot tell through the camera lenses. Indeed, none other than Reeves himself (a man qualified with firearms so well that he could function as a professional armorer if he were not spending all his attention on acting) has said he could not tell the difference between a real gun and one of the props until he started checking out the function (again, in how much detail is never specified, so we can only speculate).

So the next question is "is that really not a real gun, or is that just a real gun that has been safely configured for use on a movie set?" I know how I would answer that questions. But what is known is that real guns will continue to find a place on movie sets, and that includes being pointed directly at people, and that it is up to the production team to make sure they have a robust set of protocols in place to keep people safe while all of this happens. It can be done, it has been done, there are books written on how to do it.

They just ignored all that on the set of Rust and now someone died because of it. Baldwin should hang for that alone, regardless of who pulled the trigger. He knew and he ignored the issues, as producer he is the man ultimately responsible for the safety of the set. The conviction of the Armorer gives me some hope that he will hang for this, my worry is that if he is tried only in his position of actor he may get off, because it is well established protocol that actors have the least amount of responsibility on the set for anything other than acting. That is their only official job, and as such hold very little liability for anything else.

Like this?

• 
  
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

Taran Tactical JW4 John Wick 4 Continental Trunk Package 1 of 25 - $39999.99

 

[lucusloc]

Like this?

• 
  View attachment 1840109
• View attachment 1840110
• View attachment 1840111
• View attachment 1840112
• View attachment 1840113
• View attachment 1840114
• View attachment 1840115
• View attachment 1840116
• View attachment 1840117

Taran Tactical JW4 John Wick 4 Continental Trunk Package 1 of 25 - $39999.99

Ooooo, do I want to finish the addition on my house or buy a new toy? That is a tough decision. . .

 

[willy1]

Yes a Colt peace maker can be fired with out pulling the trigger"if theirs a live round in the chamber and the gun is dropped on the hammer it with discharge without pulling the trigger>I guess he have dropped it right after he fired it?

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

5 Billion, 5 Trillion, it's still just a movie. They have massive plot holes, horrible technical inaccuracies, and they're worried about a gun looking just exactly right. It's insanity.

Hollywood right now reading your scathing critique

 

[willy1]

I'm not sure anyone can be sure an actor would know. If he opened the gun and blanks were in it there would be primers. If the gun had dummy rounds in it there would appear to be primers too.
I do know this. Actors are not allowed to open the gun. Actors are not allowed to load or unload any gun. With a semi auto actors would not be allowed to pull the slide back, or even press check a gun.
Before each scene the armourer takes the gun, loads the correct amount of ammo and with a revolver clocks the blank to the right place so that the gun fires at the right time only.
If they allowed the actors to open the gun how many times would the blank be in the right place for the shot? If they let the actors check the guns , the blank in a semi auto would be on the set floor.
They are just not allowed to do anything with the gun except what the director [ and script] tells them to do.

I guess the old saying tret every gun as a loaded gun.i guess that doesn't make any sense?

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

I guess the old saying tret every gun as a loaded gun.i guess that doesn't make any sense?

Somewhere in the 23 pages of this train wreck are the SAG rules on firearms stating that actors are not allowed to inspect firearms, mostly I would think specifically because actors don't know anything about firearms and trusting someone like that is a bad idea, which is why they have trained armors, except Baldwin the producer did a real bad job of that

 

[64MercurysRule]

Alec still violated the rule of pointing a firearm at a person instead of at an angle away from people / camera .

 

[Koda]

An extremely anti gun industry making movies about good guys with guns hiring anti gun armorers... what could go wrong.