Alec Baldwin: on-set 'Rust' shooting - NEW UPDATE

[Xrperry]

If any of you handed me a firearm and the action was closed and you said it was safe I would check it anyway. Not that i don't trust you, but look what happened. He was the last one to handle it before it went off so its on him

 

[ilikegunspdx]

If any of you handed me a firearm and the action was closed and you said it was safe I would check it anyway. Not that i don't trust you, but look what happened. He was the last one to handle it before it went off so its on him

Yep it is most definitely on him. It's also on the dingbat "armorer" who allowed live rounds into the system, didn't follow any of the standard protocols, and repeatedly violated the four rules of safety. It's also on the goofball assistant director who handed him the gun and declared "safe gun". That AD was fired from another movie set for unsafe firearm practices. None of them have respect for firearms and firearms safety. They are all guilty IMO and Baldwin is the most guilty cuz he pulled the trigger and also is responsible for safety on the set as the producer.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

If any of you handed me a firearm and the action was closed and you said it was safe I would check it anyway. Not that i don't trust you, but look what happened. He was the last one to handle it before it went off so its on him

We've been over this before in a couple threads (some of which got locked down) and yes, you the guy out shooting would, but he wasn't a guy out shooting, he was an actor and he was handed a "prop" firearm that had been prepared for him by the prop department. Actors aren't supposed to second guess the props people, and the props people are not supposed to screw up this badly. I know that separating out Baldwin the actor from Balwin the producer is dang near impossible for some people, but from a legal and liability standpoint Baldwin the actor has almost no responsibility for what happened, the responsibility for this rest on Baldwin the producer for being (as has been pointed out) grossly incompliant at his job as a producer.

 

[lucusloc]

If any of you handed me a firearm and the action was closed and you said it was safe I would check it anyway. Not that i don't trust you, but look what happened. He was the last one to handle it before it went off so its on him

Yes, except this is a professional environment with professional safety crew, often handing things to people ignorant of the device in question. Are you really going to tell me you know how to check a stunt jump board for safe configuration? What about the pyrotechnics next to you? How about the fall gear? How about the squibs wired up to your chest? All of these have safety considerations that need to be taken into account, and the actors using these devices typically have little experience with them, other than getting put into sets where they are being asked to use them.

Firearms are the exact same, they are a device that an actor is not necessarily going to have any kind of familiarity with, that also has a dedicated safety person whose sole job it is to prepare, check and certify that that firearm is safe for use in that scene. They will then hand it to the actor and tell them it is safe. The actor is expected to follow instructions and otherwise trust the safety officer that they did their job correctly. The actors job is not to recheck safety on a device they may have little actual knowledge of, their job is to get their part of the scene correct so the production team can mark the shot as complete and move on to the next shoot.

Baldwin the actor was not responsible for the condition of the gun, he was told it was safe, so he assumed anything he did with it would be safe. That was not an incorrect assumption for him to make, that was indeed what he was supposed to do given the structure of how set safety is supposed to work. This is how it works in many professional environments. The guy framing trusses is not required to validate the architects calculations before constructing a span, he gets to trust that the architect did his job correctly and carry on with his job. If the span fails because it was not engineered correctly the contractor is not the one who takes the blame for building a span that failed, it is the architect who takes the blame because he gave improper instructions to the guys building it.

Yes, checking a gun is easy, no, something being easy to check does not automatically make it someone's responsibility to check it in a professional environment.

As discussed above Baldwin is culpable not in his role as an actor, but rather in his role as a producer who is ultimately responsible for the culture of safety on his set. He failed in that role, and all indications point to that failure being known and deliberate.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Yes, except this is a professional environment with professional safety crew, often handing things to people ignorant of the device in question. Are you really going to tell me you know how to check a stunt jump board for safe configuration? What about the pyrotechnics next to you? How about the fall gear? How about the squibs wired up to your chest? All of these have safety considerations that need to be taken into account, and the actors using these devices typically have little experience with them, other than getting put into sets where they are being asked to use them.

Firearms are the exact same, they are a device that an actor is not necessarily going to have any kind of familiarity with, that also has a dedicated safety person whose sole job it is to prepare, check and certify that that firearm is safe for use in that scene. They will then hand it to the actor and tell them it is safe. The actor is expected to follow instructions and otherwise trust the safety officer that they did their job correctly. The actors job is not to recheck safety on a device they may have little actual knowledge of, their job is to get their part of the scene correct so the production team can mark the shot as complete and move on to the next shoot.

Baldwin the actor was not responsible for the condition of the gun, he was told it was safe, so he assumed anything he did with it would be safe. That was not an incorrect assumption for him to make, that was indeed what he was supposed to do given the structure of how set safety is supposed to work. This is how it works in many professional environments. The guy framing trusses is not required to validate the architects calculations before constructing a span, he gets to trust that the architect did his job correctly and carry on with his job. If the span fails because it was not engineered correctly the contractor is not the one who takes the blame for building a span that failed, it is the architect who takes the blame because he gave improper instructions to the guys building it.

Yes, checking a gun is easy, no, something being easy to check does not automatically make it someone's responsibility to check it in a professional environment.

As discussed above Baldwin is culpable not in his role as an actor, but rather in his role as a producer who is ultimately responsible for the culture of safety on his set. He failed in that role, and all indications point to that failure being known and deliberate.

And as producer he hired an incompetent armorer who was cheap and inexperienced after more experienced armorers refused under the conditions. Also he hired the AD who handed him the gun who was fired previously from the set of another movie for unsafe firearm handling. No regard for firearm safety from start to finish directly because of Baldwin.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

He failed in that role, and all indications point to that failure being known and deliberate.

One part of that that doesn't get much coverage is he *reportedly* chose NM for filming so he could get around union rules on hiring and staffing to save some money. Had he filmed in CA or another state with stricter union rules there would have been more people on set for safety and they would have needed to be more experienced and competent

 

[lucusloc]

And as producer he hired an incompetent armorer who was cheap and inexperienced after more experienced armorers refused under the conditions. Also he hired the AD who handed him the gun who was fired previously from the set for unsafe firearm handling. No regard for firearm safety from start to finish directly because of Baldwin.

One part of that that doesn't get much coverage is he *reportedly* chose NM for filming so he could get around union rules on hiring and staffing to save some money. Had he filmed in CA or another state with stricter union rules there would have been more people on set for safety and they would have needed to be more experienced and competent

Exactly. If it was some other poor actor who had fired the shot that kill someone on that set I would not have blamed them (even if it was done in a temperamental and entitled outburst, as Baldwin seems to have been doing at the time). I would still be blaming Baldwin for the death, as he was the one who set up the environment where that kind of accident could happen in the first place. I think the prosecution needs to reevaluate their framing of the incident and make sure they pin it on him for the right reasons. If he gets off because he successfully argues that "It was the armorer's fault!" I am going to be pissed that the prosecution did not make the case that he hired that armorer!

 

[ilikegunspdx]

One part of that that doesn't get much coverage is he *reportedly* chose NM for filming so he could get around union rules on hiring and staffing to save some money. Had he filmed in CA or another state with stricter union rules there would have been more people on set for safety and they would have needed to be more experienced and competent

Yep many staff walked off or complained repeatedly about accidental discharges and explosions prior to the shooting. It was an unsafe set.

'Fast and loose': 'Rust' crew member quit over lack of safety day before fatal accident

Lane Luper, the A-camera first assistant, cited discontinued safety meetings and accidental use of explosives in his resignation email to producers.

www.nbcnews.com

‘Rust’ Camera Crew Protested Unsafe Working Conditions Hours Before Fatal Shooting

The prop gun had several misfires in recent days, a source told the Los Angeles Times, raising questions about safety procedures on set.

www.huffpost.com

 

[GrayGoose]

Baldwin the actor was not responsible for the condition of the gun

Perhaps, but he is 100% responsible for pointing it at another person and pulling the trigger, without checking and verifying that it was unloaded. 100% on him.

 

[Ura-Ki]

We've been over this before in a couple threads (some of which got locked down) and yes, you the guy out shooting would, but he wasn't a guy out shooting, he was an actor and he was handed a "prop" firearm that had been prepared for him by the prop department. Actors aren't supposed to second guess the props people, and the props people are not supposed to screw up this badly. I know that separating out Baldwin the actor from Balwin the producer is dang near impossible for some people, but from a legal and liability standpoint Baldwin the actor has almost no responsibility for what happened, the responsibility for this rest on Baldwin the producer for being (as has been pointed out) grossly incompliant at his job as a producer.

Here is where it all falls apart! Baldy IS responsible in every aspect of this whole thing! As the top bubblegum in charge, he hired the armor and assistants, he hired everyone involved, and he was the top azzhole who should have enforced all aspects of safety, including the FULL knowledge of firearms safety, that was his phuckin job as the head azzhole, something he obviously didn't take serious in even the most basic of instances, so this completely falls in his shoulders, 100% of the guilt is On him as the #1 azzhole in charge! As an actor, he was trained in firearms safety over his many years as such, having been expected to "Act" with firearms, something he has flip flopped back and forth on since the beginning! There is also video footage of him on set showing he knows full well all the safety protocols, so he is damn sure liable, and guilty of murdering that film maker!

 

[lucusloc]

Perhaps, but he is 100% responsible for pointing it at another person and pulling the trigger, without checking and verifying that it was unloaded. 100% on him.

So if he had stepped on a pyro trigger because he was told it was safe and the device was set up incorrectly and cooked the camera guy, that would be on him or the team that incorrectly configured the pyro device?

 

[GrayGoose]

So if he had stepped on a pyro trigger because he was told it was safe and the device was set up incorrectly and cooked the camera guy, that would be on him or the team that incorrectly configured the pyro device?

Not the same thing at all.

 

[Ura-Ki]

So if he had stepped on a pyro trigger because he was told it was safe and the device was set up incorrectly and cooked the camera guy, that would be on him or the team that incorrectly configured the pyro device?

100% on him, as the head azzhole in charge, it would be his job to ensure all safety protocols were followed, and if there was an accident, then as the head bubblegum in charge, it squarely lands at his feet! Outside of his head azzholyness, then there would be liability on those who prepared whatever incorrectly!

 

[lucusloc]

Not the same thing at all.

How is it not the same thing at all? Please explain how a safety person handing you a prop and telling you it is safe is different from a safety guy handing you a different prop and telling you it is safe.

 

[GrayGoose]

How is it not the same thing at all? Please explain how a safety person handing you a prop and telling you it is safe is different from a safety guy handing you a different prop and telling you it is safe.

Explaining anything to you is a lost cause and not worth my time.

 

[lucusloc]

Explaining anything to you is a lost cause and not worth my time.

nice cop out.

 

[lucusloc]

100% on him, as the head azzhole in charge, it would be his job to ensure all safety protocols were followed, and if there was an accident, then as the head bubblegum in charge, it squarely lands at his feet! Outside of his head azzholyness, then there would be liability on those who prepared whatever incorrectly!

Yes, on him as producer, not as actor. If it had been some other actor who pulled the trigger and killed someone I would not blame them, I would still blame Baldwin.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

nice cop out.

Had to log out to see what you were responding to because @GrayGoose is one of those folks that have decided that I am too spicy for them

But anyway, this thread is going pretty much the same way as the other threads that got locked

 

[lucusloc]

Had to log out to see what you were responding to because @GrayGoose is one of those folks that have decided that I am too spicy for them

But anyway, this thread is going pretty much the same way as the other threads that got locked

Lucky man. If only I could be graced with such accolades.

 

[gmerkt]

They used live rounds for some shots. This meant they kept live rounds as part of the inventory.

Why would this be necessary?