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Looking at loading data for .30 Carbine.....One book uses CCI primers, for some of the listed powders they use "Small rifle Magnum". Another book uses Remington small rifle primers(6 1/2 I believe), in loads from both books using the same powder. Remington does not have magnum primers. Am I to believe that Remington primers are hotter/have more "POP", than CCI primers of the same size?

I do understand that the loading data is only telling you what THEY used to get the results THEY got. Actual experience would help here. I'm still way off from shooting my own loads as I don't get out much. Too cold and wet and all that.
 
I prefer to use primers like CCI #41

from Midways site:Number 41 Mil-spec primers are made to the same specifications of the U.S. Military and reduce the chances of a slam-fire. While designed for you in Military-style semi-auto rifles, they use the same data as CCI magnum primers.
 
The data you are looking at is for a rifle and I personally use the regular CCI Magnum Primers and not the Mil Spec because I don't think it's necessary. I also don't like the idea of having anymore different types of Primers on my loading Bench. But, then I use Magnum Primers for all my Reloading. And, I've never yet had an issue.
 
OP: I've never reloaded 30 Carbine, & have limited use of the company making primers you mention, and ZERO 'mil' primer use....

while I'm sure there 'was' a specific reason for the efforts to develop 'magnum' vs 'standard' primers, in my own use in hand guns (DISCLAIMER/etc) I've never been able to discern a functional difference.

Of particular note, is in the not-too-distant-recent past, Winchester Itself has found reason for merging their Pistol LPP & SPP line into just one flavor images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS1g7FDVkALwSWMCO_XlMy-g86U6ywFHxFTmfEoMzDoZdm6WbeP2w.jpg
Speculation continues yet I see no functional changes as a casual hobbyiest.
 
I have found a difference between Magnum and Standard when loading certain Magnum cartridges. And I've found that none Magnum cartridges work just fine with Magnum Primers. Magnum Primers don't cost any more so I choose to use them all the time. Others can certainly do what they choose.
 
I would most likely use the primer that is recommended, in whatever books data I use. The Speer #14 book uses CCI in their data. Lyman 49th uses Remington. Speer has quite a few loads using magnum primers, where Lyman has similar data and, well, Remington doesn't have magnum primers. When I get around to it I will be using H110 for my .30 carbine. It's interesting though,Speer has a MAX load at 14.5 gr of H110 and Lyman has 14.gr as a starting load! and 15.5 gr as MAX, and showing that as compressed. :s0153: It's possible I suppose that less powder need a bigger fire to burn properly? In any case I will probably follow the Lyman data, I think.
 
Looking at loading data for .30 Carbine.....One book uses CCI primers, for some of the listed powders they use "Small rifle Magnum". Another book uses Remington small rifle primers(6 1/2 I believe), in loads from both books using the same powder. Remington does not have magnum primers. Am I to believe that Remington primers are hotter/have more "POP", than CCI primers of the same size?

I do understand that the loading data is only telling you what THEY used to get the results THEY got. Actual experience would help here. I'm still way off from shooting my own loads as I don't get out much. Too cold and wet and all that.

There are differences in primers, formulation, quantity of explosive, and cup hardness that may all affect the function and performance. These differences may also occur lot to lot from the same primers.

In some cases, depending on charge, there may be no appreciable difference between two primers. however in other loads there may be huge differences. There are no hard and fast guidelines, but generally if it's a small charge, or a super-heavy charge of slow burning powder, you want to use magnum primers. The main difference between a "magnum" and a non-magnum is how much oomph you get from the primer. Magnum primers generally have a longer hotter flash, this will ensure ignition of a "magnum charge", this is because large "magnum" cases have a large capacity, and may be filled with a lot of slower-burning and harder to ignite powder. The use of a hotter primer in this case is to ensure reliable ignition of the large powder column, the same can be true for ultra-light loads, where the powder may not be near the flash-hole and sitting flat on the bottom of the case.

30 Carbine, because it's a long narrow casing, and the diameter of the powder charge is roughly the same as the bullet diameter, you need hotter ignition in order to achieve good burning characteristics from the powder. This is why shotguns not only have a primer, but also a rather stout battery cup. In order to get powder to burn there are two fundamental requirements: You need to ignite as much of it as quickly as possible, and you must hold compression of the powder until all of it is ignited, because a primer simply isn't always enough.

This is why you will find certain oddities like balloon blanks, which have a case full of powder, that's often a mix of either black powder, mixed with a very slow burning rifle powder (the burning grains are what pop the balloon) or a mix of 3 or 4F BP sitting underneath a load of 1F. The initial charge is just a kicker to ignite the rest of the powder and blow it out the barrel. Similarly, if you are loading a shot-shell and don't have good crimp, it's not uncommon for the wad and shot column to leave the gun but leave a lot of unburned powder behind (sometimes the shot-cup doesn't leave the barrel, and will be a serious and damaging obstruction when the next round is fired.)

With all of this in mind, the "shortest" answer to your question is: With the load data provided, the person testing the ammunition found both loads to conform to a standard that functioned the gun, and were below the established maximum pressure to safely operate the gun. The primers are in no other way equivalent.
 
Some companies do indeed make standard primers hotter than others, a standard winchester primer is as hot as a magnum CCI. General rule is: stick and flake powder in non magnum case, standard primer; ball powder or large magnum case, magnum primer.

I use magnums for everything rifle, it makes it simpler to keep only one kind on hand.

As for the conflicting data, just start out low, and load one round each at the low charges, when you get hotter load 3s or 4s to shoot groups with. Just fire until you see pressure signs or the velocity matches the book and you'll be at the right pressure.
 
I've loaded thousands of rounds of .30 Carbine over the decades, and never once used either a magnum or mil-spec primer. Never had a problem, never had a slamfire.

I don't understand the trend with using magnum primers in non-magnum rounds lately. I helped a friend start loading .223 recently. He bought small rifle magnum primers, said that's what the book called for. I've loaded many thousands of .223 rounds as well with never a problem and never a magnum primer. I don't get it.

Some people say follow the recipe exactly or you'll be sorry. Others say a loading guide is just that, a guide; you need to carefully work up your load from there, and more importantly understand why. I guess there's no harm in using a magnum primer so long as the load is worked up with it, but I don't get why in a .30 carbine. If it was necessary you think I'd have noticed a problem sometime within the last 30 years.

Maybe in extremely cold weather magnum primers could help? I've never been shooting when it's -30°f out; might be helpful then?
 
I've loaded thousands of rounds of .30 Carbine over the decades, and never once used either a magnum or mil-spec primer. Never had a problem, never had a slamfire.

I don't understand the trend with using magnum primers in non-magnum rounds lately. I helped a friend start loading .223 recently. He bought small rifle magnum primers, said that's what the book called for. I've loaded many thousands of .223 rounds as well with never a problem and never a magnum primer. I don't get it.

Some people say follow the recipe exactly or you'll be sorry. Others say a loading guide is just that, a guide; you need to carefully work up your load from there, and more importantly understand why. I guess there's no harm in using a magnum primer so long as the load is worked up with it, but I don't get why in a .30 carbine. If it was necessary you think I'd have noticed a problem sometime within the last 30 years.

Maybe in extremely cold weather magnum primers could help? I've never been shooting when it's -30°f out; might be helpful then?

For 223 Magnum primers are better because they have thicker cups and will withstand more pressure, you will see primer flow before max pressure with standard ones.

Otherwise it's like I said, keeps me from having to keep different kinds on hand. Every load I shoot is worked up with them so it makes no difference.

Some benchrest types have tested them and found Magnum primers to give smaller SDs, the difference is very small and probably doesn't matter for my shooting, but it is there.
 
You said categorically that all "223 Magnum primers are better because they have thicker cups..".
They all do not have thicker cups than standard primers.

The few companies that make Magnum small rifle primers use thicker cups than for the standard versions, not just a hotter mix, did you read the article?
 
I have loaded thousands of 30 Carbine. I have always used Standard
Winchester Small Rifle primers. My handloads shoot better than LC ball ammo.
My recipe 110 grain FMJ-RN with 12 grains H110, LC brass, WSR primers.
12 grains is the starting charge in my RCBS manual. ;)
As always check all loads with published reloading data.:D
Rifle primers are "Hotter" than pistol primers.
 
Thank you guys. I've only been loading hand gun, since 2011. I feel though that I have a pretty good grasp of the logistics of the way things work in the relationship of powder, pressures, burn rates etc. I've never worried about the brand of primer, but I haven't loaded any magnum rounds with magnum type powders, 2400, H110...I've noticed on some other load data, in the Speer 14 book, where they recommend use of mag primers, in.44 special/magnum. I don't even have to look at the Lyman book because the Remington primers they use don't come in magnum. It makes sense to use mag primers in the LARGE cases of .44 sp/mag and .45 colt where the case may not be anywhere near full and extra "Oomph" might be needed. To me the need for mag primers would be less in the smaller/fuller case of .30 carbine. That was the reason for my questions. Also, there was only a 9fps difference between the two books with the use of standard and mag primers, and 18"-20" barrels.

Between the two books I'm looking at there is a 3.5 gr range from min. to max. loads in those little cases. THAT'S the kind of reloading data I like. Start low and and work up. At this time I don't have ant pet loads that go anywhere near the max though.
 
As far as getting out and shooting my own rifle loads.....If didn't have to drive across this miserable city, and back, to get out to the woods and test my loads I might actually the able to take the "Accuracy" thing seriously. As it is, when I do finally load for the .30 carbine, and get to test it, I'll most likely settle for hitting the gong at 100 yards! Yay!
 
Lots of great info here.

Generally, the small rifle magnum primers have thicker (not necessarily harder) cups. This helps when you start seeing primer flow that is not necessarily over pressure. They also help to eliminate slam fires in semiauto rifles, though I've yet to have one in several thousand rounds fired with CCI 400s.

Magnum primers can help to ignite some powders such as ball powder, and firing conditions that are extremely cold.

When testing for accuracy, it's often a good idea to try out different primers manufacturers and magnum vs non-magnum. You WILL see a difference on paper. Just make sure you're not on the ragged edge of a pressure curve when you start swapping out primers with the same powder charge.

I did a primer test of my own a couple years back swapping out about 8-9 different primers with everything else remaining constant. Mainly I was looking to find the difference in SDs. The results were interesting as SDs weren't the only thing I saw changes in. Accuracy was definitely affected as well.
 

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