9mm vs .40 Smith & Wesson - What happened?

[deerbandit]

There are very few examples of new .40 S&W pistols being any cheaper than the 9mm version. People keep saying there are awesome deals on new .40 S&W pistols. I haven't seen it.

I have bought several new pistols this past year in both 9mm and .40 S&W. The cheapest were in 9mm.

I like .40 S&W. I reload for it. It is much more of a flexible round for me than 9mm and more accurate.

Go to AIM and any of the other companies that sell used Police guns. You can pick up .40 caliber Glocks for under $300.00 when they have them in stock. I picked up several for myself.

 

[DizzyJ]

I see your point as I've spent two years in the Military and eight years in the LE (both Russian).
Believe me, with .22 I can blow the BG's brains with first shot.
However, I will still have 33 rounds in the magazine...
Would you call it a salt shaker then?

View attachment 575094

Salt is bad for your blood pressure. I try to avoid it.

 

[oremike]

To further stir the pot why not 38 Super? It's what a 357 Sig is trying to be.

 

[DirectDrive]

To further stir the pot why not 38 Super? It's what a 357 Sig is trying to be.

I'll see your 38 Super and raise you a 9x25 Dillon.

 

[BATTERY]

I consolidated my calibers a few years back.

9mm. 5.56, 7.62x39 and 308. Never looked back.

Handgun caliber I call my 9MMs. Cheap and it works. I don't get all bent about what others do. I shoot quite a bit of 9MM around 5000 to 6000 a year. That's a lot to me.

 

[SmitKoWitz]

Go to AIM and any of the other companies that sell used Police guns. You can pick up .40 caliber Glocks for under $300.00 when they have them in stock. I picked up several for myself.

I'll stick with my Kahr MK40 for subcompact carry, or my M&P 40 Compact for greater capacity.

 

[Alexx1401]

To further stir the pot why not 38 Super? It's what a 357 Sig is trying to be.

That was a great idea that for some reason the public just did not want much to do with. It has great potential but few ever seemed interested. Back not too long after Mexico told their citizens they could no longer own guns we got flooded with nice 1911's in .38 Super. Could get them at great price but damn trying to find ammo was a huge hassle back then. Only FFL's could order ammo and most stores carried nothing in this. If you found it at all it was the FMJ ball ammo stuff and it was expensive. I was always surprised that the round never got a following.

 

[deathfromabove]

That link was a darn good read. Thanks. I am going to save that one. Great discussion by the way.

Terminal ballistics as viewed in a morgue

 

[DeanMk]

LGS pointed out last time I was in they have very few .40s in stock just due to the demand falling off the cliff. Never really thought about it but ya my own buying habits have all been 9mm in place of the .40. I even recently picked up a conversion barrel for my G35 to run 9mm. I reload both but shoot 10:1 9mm to 40. I am told most cops are still are mostly with .40's.

Any thoughts as to why the loss in favor?
Was it the ammo shortage and the cost of .40 going up that did it for consumers?
FBI's switch back to 9mm a few yrs ago?

You know, you can't deny the power of Social Media and I belong to a few gun boards.
There's always some posts and/or threads, poo-pooing the .40, but almost none doing the same with the 9mm.
If you see/read it enough, it starts to become ingrained in your brain.....40 bad, 9mm good!.
Then again, with all the micro pistols hitting the market in the last 10-15 years and all the more compact variations ALWAYS in 9mm...well, whatcha expect?
Speaking of which, it might be interesting to poll your LGS and see if full sized pistol sales have declined as well.
...that could be your answer, right there.
FWIW, I like the .40. Recoil isn't too different from 9mm, but it definitely hits harder.
However, like yourself Helocat, I find myself preferring the 9mm guns. In fact, I was just looking into the cost of a complete set of steel framed 9mm Kahr's (T, K and Mk).


Dean

 

[oremike]

Every time I'm told the 40 S&W is a dead or dieing caliber I think about how long that has been and is still being said about the 30-06.
Me I like 40 over 9. I feel a good JHP (I like Gold Dots) will break a charge from a Cougar or Crack-head with the first well placed shot, and I think a 9mm just doesn't have the beans to be that efficient when needed. I do shoot a 9 when I need fast follow up shots like playing the speed steel game.

 

[CLT65]

I was reminded of this thread by a conversation I overheard at a gun show the other day. I wasn't trying to eavesdrop but heard a couple guys talking about this. One guy was telling the other how he should get the 9mm because they've discovered in recent years that the 9mm is actually more powerful than the .40 S&W. Yes, more powerful somehow. He didn't know how, exactly, but those were the facts, Jack.

I remember the caliber arguments of the '80s. It was .45 vs. 9mm back then. .40 S&W was supposed to be the perfect answer. The whole thing is very simple. The .40 is a little too snappy for some people, i.e. the average officer who's not a gun guy, those with smaller hands, and many/most out of a subcompact pistol. Improved bullet design has improved the effectiveness of all handgun rounds. The .40 is still and will always be the more powerful and effective round, but the 9mm is now "good enough". That's really all there is to it. If you like the .40 and shoot it well, more power to you. Keep shooting, ammo will always be available. The thought that ammo companies would discontinue it at some time in the near future is absurd. It's still as good a round as it ever was; better, actually, because of better bullet design.

As I mentioned, I like both. I like them all actually, but as I also previously mentioned, my shooting is primarily recreational.

 

[coop44]

Surprised this thread hasn't been closed yet.

 

[dcfranzen]

Surprised this thread hasn't been closed yet.

Really? I thought the posting just before yours by CLT65 was relevant to the discussion. The thread has only been active for eight days.

When I walk into my LGS there are a lot of polymer semi-automatic pistols and only a few metal semi-autos. Does that mean that metal is better than polymer? Of course not. Well, maybe for guys like me but then I'm not like most new or used gun buyers today.

The .40S&W market is flooded with police department trade-ins which are a better value buy than most new gun offerings in that caliber, so is there any wonder the LGS is seeing sales drop.

Now, I'm seeing a lot more new .380 offerings in my LGS's display cases. What does that mean?

 

[CLT65]

I think he just means that we're all beating a long-dead horse.

Is dead horse beating cause for closing a thread?

 

[coop44]

Just hide and a few bits of bone left. Looks like a horse pancake.

 

[Geardo]

I think he just means that we're all beating a long-dead horse.

Is dead horse beating cause for closing a thread?

Apparently not as long as you are polite about it.

 

[bbbass]

Shoot what you like but don't trash someone because they don't like your favorite.

Why not!

Until your life depends on you pulling the trigger on another human being.

People don't just usually stand there and let you shoot bullseyes at them.

Spray and pray...

Actually, the only man I personally know that has killed another man with a pistol, is a retired cardiac surgeon that killed two men in different incidents at close range with a .45LC single action short barreled revolver. One shot. Go big or go home!!

If one doesn't carry a .454Casull or a .500SW, one is a puss!!!! LOL

I agree about the getting older and wanting something softer. However, that is one of the reasons I prefer metal firearms over polymer. More weight to the firearm, the recoil transfer is not as sharp. Of course, some lighter weight small polymer firearms do an excellent job mitigating felt recoil.

Ageism sucks.

The first pistol I had for use in USPSA competition was a .40 Witness. It wasn't a bad pistol, but I didn't like the SA/DA trigger for action shooting... I found the difference from first pull to SA to be annoying. I also found the recoil to be just a bit off-putting but not something drastic. When shopping for my next competition pistol, my gunsmith, who was also a USPSA competitor, said that I needed to stay above 9mm to make power factor... so 9mm was out. He recommended a "real" cartridge that "real men" shoot... the .45ACP. And so I chose a double stack Para P14.45 2011 made in Can-a-duh, a poor man's STI. I found the recoil to be stronger than .40, but more pleasant somehow. Later on in life, I started to get arthritis in my hands and shooting 200rds became more stressful on my hands. Then, long after, I started shooting IDPA and the .45 with even 100rds had me looking for the pain pills after a match. Since there is no penalty for shooting 9mm in IDPA, I switched to that. Started with a G19 I already owned for EDC, then eventually bought a G34. I sure miss my 2011 SA trigger. IDPA is limited to 10rds in the mags for SSP and ESP so mag capacity doesn't make a difference. IMO it's not the age of the shooter, it's the pain us old folks start having. Now it's in my feet and my back too. However, this April at the first match of the year I placed 12 out of 30 shooters, many of them much younger, so this old guy doesn't need Gunagra yet!!!

I remember the race gun shooters we had in USPSA that used .38Super... those guns had a very fast cycle time and stayed level from shot to shot. One guy that we called "Rocket" sounded like a full auto when he went thru a string. He practiced using several thousand rounds a week. Funny thing was, it was all about timing when transitioning targets, he was either right on, or completely off. The Grand Masters were ALL old guys... one of them told me not to worry about speed shooting, because "Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast"!!!

 

[dcfranzen]

I usually bring three pistols to shoot when I go to the range. One is my EDC and the others are a 9mm and .40 S&W. I like to shoot the drills I have selected for the .40s first. I've found that running the 9mm first exaggerates the recoil and follow-up shot timing. The 9mm pistols are mostly range pistols and I use them for drills that involve expending more ammo.

My favorite pistol, a S&W model 4053, is a single stack .40 caliber pistol built on a .45 frame. I believe it was created just for me. Too many .40S&W pistols are built on 9mm frames and it is telling after a few magazines.

At 72, I have to fight off the effects of age and arthritis in my hands. It is particularly annoying the day after consuming sugary foods or drinks. I've found that if I cut sugars and use my VIVE hand strengthening balls along with my Luxon hand grip strengthener that I have less painful bouts of joint pain and a better grip on my firearms.

I take advantage of the Silver Sneakers Program at my local fitness center for resistance training because I've lost muscle mass due to aging. At home, I focus on my hands and forearms with the devices I mentioned above because I know loss of hand strength is also a part of the aging process and I'm determined to slow it down by being proactive.

 

[41mag]

Pure ballistic physics aside for a moment, I side with the opinion 'what you shoot best' as being a better choice if you only have the magic 'one shot' life saving Big Bang.

Forty years ago I was enthralled by the then-wildcat 38/45acp (forgot the developer name) that was theoretically the coming thing. Problem was 'reality': despite buckets of 'green poultice therapy' we just could not make it reliably functional. It tried to accomplish what the fabled 38 Super/357 Sig now enjoys. Because of my prior aversion training, I have avoided both of them regardless of their advantages.

I noted my 'enjoyment factor' in .40 both in bottom stuffers as well as my trusty S&W 610, was noticeably diminishing over a few years. I turned to 9mm, and found my enjoyment returned; my match scores improved by around 30% and my geezeritis did not announce his dissatisfaction with my choice.

My argument is with time & tide & gravity, not those who prefer .40 cal.

 

[titsonritz]

Now, I'm seeing a lot more new .380 offerings in my LGS's display cases. What does that mean?

There are a lot of uninformed people?