9mm vs .40 Smith & Wesson - What happened?

[Alexx1401]

I was reminded of this thread by a conversation I overheard at a gun show the other day. I wasn't trying to eavesdrop but heard a couple guys talking about this. One guy was telling the other how he should get the 9mm because they've discovered in recent years that the 9mm is actually more powerful than the .40 S&W. Yes, more powerful somehow. He didn't know how, exactly, but those were the facts, Jack.

It's bad enough when you hear people in a shop spouting stuff that is just not true. It is VERY common. Things told at the watering hole and such. It makes me cringe a little when the damn help starts doing this. Especially when they are doing it to some newbie, like some woman, who is there seeking advice. At times it takes everything I have to not jump in and call someone out when I hear this, giving false and or bad advice to some poor gal who is just seeking info. This is how my Wife ended up bringing home an LCPII. Worked out since I love it and it became mine but, the counter guy should have been able to see it was not going to work for her. Yet he was all too all in on selling it to her of course.

 

[DeanMk]

Now, I'm seeing a lot more new .380 offerings in my LGS's display cases. What does that mean?

See? Power of the internet.
There's been a lot of chat about the .380 for a few years now. Gun writers dedicating a lot of articles to it lately.
You put it out there, show it in the right light, everyone wants one.
I blame myself, really. About 15 years ago I lamented about never owning a Browning BDA on a couple of now defunct forums. That sparked some positive comments, which sparked some more positive comments and now, everyone wants one.
Sorry about that folks.

Dean

 

[SmitKoWitz]

About 15 years ago I lamented about never owning a Browning BDA on a couple of now defunct forums.

BDA 380, pretty nice piece. Picked one up in Nickel when Cabela's was selling them in the late part of 2009 into 2010. Had mine for 9 years now, great little high capacity 380; 13 rounds.

 

[Kruel J]

CLOSED!!



Not really.

 

[oremike]

I sell a lot of 380, 9, 40, 38 special, and 45acp. I do sell a bunch of other calibers but those are the big 5. You'd think in this age of high capacity plastic guns and all the internet hype that the 5 or 6 shot 38 special would have gone the way of the Dodo bird but it's one of my most popular loadings.

 

[DB is Here]

the 5 or 6 shot 38 special would have gone the way of the Dodo bird but it's one of my most popular loadings.

Carry mine most of the summer, it does conceal better than most.

 

[DeanMk]

BDA 380, pretty nice piece. Picked one up in Nickel when Cabela's was selling them in the late part of 2009 into 2010. Had mine for 9 years now, great little high capacity 380; 13 rounds.

You ain't whistlin' dixie man!
Never heard a bad word about them.
Beautiful aesthetics. Nice handful. Good heft. Compact but high capacity. Smooth action. It's almost the Model 15 of pistols (although I'm sure there's a couple of German guns that would take issue with that accolade).
I don't know why I never made the connection (since it's so obvious), but I recently found out those were made for Browning by Beretta.

 

[SmitKoWitz]

Nickel BDA . . . .

 

[DeanMk]

Sweet. I was trying to find old catalogue scans I remember seeing but none came up in Google images.
Nickel plated with wood grips is definitely the quintessential BDA.

 

[titsonritz]

You'd think in this age of high capacity plastic guns and all the internet hype that the 5 or 6 shot 38 special would have gone the way of the Dodo bird but it's one of my most popular loadings.

And there is a pretty high percentage of them that have been sitting in nightstand drawers for years with a whole 5 rounds through them.

 

[CLT65]

The lowly .38 Special is actually an excellent example of why the .40 S&W will always be around and readily available, even if every single government agency drops it to return to the 9mm.

The .38 used to be ubiquitous, and is now entirely obsolete for the role it once filled. It's still as good as it ever was, though (or better). The millions of guns out there ensure it will be around for a very long time to come.

And there is a pretty high percentage of them that have been sitting in nightstand drawers for years with a whole 5 rounds through them.

That is very true. I've known a few people over the years who have gone about their lives with a false sense of security because they have a trusty .38 tucked away in the sock drawer, that they've fired one time long ago, and never practiced with.

It reminds me of a story I read in a gun magazine years ago, about a girl who came of age and moved out on her own, to an apartment in the city. Her father gave her a revolver to keep her safe. One night a dirtbag followed her home and broke in the apartment door. She stood there pointing the gun at him, trembling in fear because she'd never even fired the thing. He could tell she was as scared of it as she was of him, so he just took it away, robbed, beat, abused her, and left with the gun to use in robbing other people.

Sad story, but a strong reminder that a gun isn't some magic talisman to ward off evil. You darn well need to know how to use it if the time ever comes where you have to. Much like the neighbor lady who lived down the road from us when I was young. A kitchen fire started one day. There was a fire extinguisher right there in the kitchen, but she just walked out and let it burn, because she had no idea how to use it.

 

[Pandaz3]

I too have a nickel BDA, bought new in '88. Today I shot five different 380's A LCP Custom as I put a spring kit in it, testing for function, worked well, mine has the Hogue Handsall grip sleeve. used a extended seven round Ruger magazine shot just 15 rounds of ne LAX 102 Gr FMJ (Flat nose). Shot the same ammo in a Spectrum, 42 rounds so far, I did have one case stovepipe midway thru the session with it, hard to say why, I might have limp wristed as I tired quickly, but so far I like it. 21 rounds through the LC-380, just fine for it. Then I have a new Springfield 911, beautiful fit and finish great sights soft shooter, accurate. Best single shot 380 I own! Slide locked back each and every round. Slide release works good though I even tried my Mustangs magazine. 72 round total, LAX, Winchester FMJ, Underwood XTP. I then tried the magazine in the Mustang and they all worked. My XSP eats everything and works every time I have a lot of 380's but these five were begging to be shot. So is my BDA, but it has an assigned place on top of my office computer, loaded for bear cubs. Yes bear cubs beware!

I also shot my new PT-140 G2C, very nice gun accurate, made me look good. Only 51 rounds, 40 of LAX 165 Gr JHP, and 11 of Underwood 150 Grain JHP (I think a Nosler bullet) Made me happy.

Need to shoot the Taurus more and figure out the 911.

 

[DeanMk]

...with all the talk about the .380 suddenly cropping up, I thought these might be of interest...

 

[bsa1917hunter]

i personally like 40 s&w when shooting a dualling tree that a friend made. it flips the target even on a bad hit. 9mm will too but sometimes only flips it about half way. kinda funny, my 45 will flip it so hard that it flips back LOL.

i dont like debating calibers. people like what people like and thats it, for me. i couldnt decide what i liked best so i bought atleast 1 in each of those 3 calibers .

however, 45 is my favorite to reload out of those 3. easier for me to grab the case and install it into my press. its also easier to sort when you get back from the range and you have 9 40 and 45 brass all in one bag lol

When we have our bowling pin shoots at the club, the 40 takes them off the table much better than the 9. You dont see a lot of guys using them there.

 

[41mag]

I was surprised to discover the 10mm actually moved the pin back about 3' before it even had time to fall over;

45acp probably is my favorite for pins;

44 special is simply devine; 44 mag is more than adequate and discouraged by our pin director, as too much damage. The 45LC loads I've used are about perfect in the sense the acp doesn't quite convey.

9 & 38 work but you have to be very careful 'spot shooter' to make the pin go off the table with regularity. In the time frame the young Turks with blazing 40s have, my imitation of a doddering geezer is not very notable. We use a double-match elimination, so you have 2 chances before you have to go home.

I haven't shot pins this season as usually it takes longer for me to go & come back from the match, than it does to stay there & compete.

 

[Fishonshawn]

There are very few examples of new .40 S&W pistols being any cheaper than the 9mm version. People keep saying there are awesome deals on new .40 S&W pistols. I haven't seen it.

I have bought several new pistols this past year in both 9mm and .40 S&W. The cheapest were in 9mm.

I like .40 S&W. I reload for it. It is much more of a flexible round for me than 9mm and more accurate.

Brand new fns and fns compact 40's for $299!! The 9mm ones are much more expensive. That's almost half off for the .40 version.

 

[41mag]

It was a hard choice given the ballistic differences; however, I made the cut several years ago. I quit shooting/reloading/thinking much about the 40 S&W.

1) had too many calibers with little actual ballistic differences;
2) too much time at the reloading bench trying to feed all those wide-yarping magazine mouths;
3) biggest annoyance was I just never cared for the impulse waves either sonic or blastomatic recoil levels;

The only rimless cartridge that doesn't annoy me to reload these days is the 45acp.

YMMV

 

[dojiijii]

From this article: An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power

TLDR: The author studied 1800 shootings to investigate stopping power of different handgun ammunition calibers. There isn't much difference between the effectiveness of the most common defensive handgun calibers (.38, 9mm, .40, .45).

A couple of brief excerpts:

9mm Luger# of people shot – 456
# of hits – 1121
% of hits that were fatal – 24%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation – 2.45
% of people who were not incapacitated – 13%
One-shot-stop % – 34%
Accuracy (head and torso hits) – 74%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) – 47%

.40 S&W# of people shot – 188
# of hits – 443
% of hits that were fatal – 25%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation – 2.36
% of people who were not incapacitated – 13%
One-shot-stop % – 45%
Accuracy (head and torso hits) – 76%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) – 52%

One other thing to look at is the 9mm data. A huge number (over half) of 9mm shootings involved ball ammo. I think that skewed the results of the study in a negative manner. One can reasonable expect that FMJ ammo will not stop as well as a state of the art expanding bullet. I personally believe that the 9mm is a better stopper than the numbers here indicate, but you can make that decision for yourself based on the data presented.

Some interesting findings:

I think the most interesting statistic is the percentage of people who stopped with one shot to the torso or head. There wasn't much variation between calibers. Between the most common defensive calibers (.38, 9mm, .40, and .45) there was a spread of only eight percentage points. No matter what gun you are shooting, you can only expect a little more than half of the people you shoot to be immediately incapacitated by your first hit.

Given the similar effectiveness, it makes sense for organizations purchasing large quantities of ammunition to use the most affordable option.

 

[Pandaz3]

I am an organization of ONE, so I can use what I choose, and that is 40 S&W, with a sprinkling of 357 Sig, 327 Federal Mag, and then all the rest

 

[dcfranzen]

The author studied 1800 shootings to investigate stopping power of different handgun ammunition calibers. There isn't much difference between the effectiveness of the most common defensive handgun calibers (.38, 9mm, .40, .45).

It is clear to me that the real issue is not the ammo calibers but the marksmanship of those that generated the statistics. FMJ or expanding rounds are both ineffective if they don't hit something vital.