9mm vs .40 Smith & Wesson - What happened?

[Pete F]

Just like my .41 AE's, the .40 is the minimum for bowling pin shoots. My .41 AE Tanfoglio Ultra was made for pin shooting, although it says IPSC approved. Both calibers will knock the pins off the table in one shot.

Just like the .38 Super, there will always be a place in competition for these calibers. For self defense, well it is your preference and ability.

 

[BATTERY]

No the 10 isn't dead. It never really got a chance to live. It's a nitche cartridge in my opinion. Never had a chance. I'm not even sure why 10mm is my favorite. I wanted to love .357 sig.. then I shot one. Lol

I guess if I reloaded 10mm would get more action at the range with me.

I could honestly not give 2 fiddlers Fs about the difference in ballistics in most major handgun calibers. It doesn't interest me.

I just know that since switching to an affordable caliber "to me". I shoot a lot more and have improved. I switched during my chid support years! I just stuck with it because it works fine.

Same reason I shoot mainly glocks. Just a tool and easy to work on just 1 platform.

 

[po18guy]

Anyone can load and shoot 9mm or .45. I certainly do. But, it takes someone with a real soft spot for orphans to load and carry the .41 Action Express. Wonder where it would have gone if S&W had not introduced the .40? A 210 grain at 900fps is so darned close to .45 - but in a 9 platform.

Imagine a G43 in .41. Or a Hellcat. Or a Mossberg. Or any number of 9s that need only a barrel, spring and mag for caliber conversion. But practicality does not popularity make.

 

[BATTERY]

..40 stifled innovation. Gun manufacturers are playing catch up now. New magazine designs like the sig 365 and now a 15 round mag for the Glock 43x and 48.

These things might not have happened of the .40 had kept its hold. "Died" lol

 

[oremike]

So here's my observation from what sells, I sell all the 9 I can make just about as fast as I can get it in a box. The next most popular calibers sell darn near as fast are .380, 45 acp, 40 S&W and 38 Special all at about the same rate. 10mm, 44 mag and special, 45 Colt and 357 Mag would be the next tier of popularity. The rest of what I make all sells but it might take a month or two to run through the stock.

 

[TTSX]

I've said it before, maybe in this thread. Not going through 12 pages to find out. I've been able to get many guns in .40 for about 2/3 or less what the same gun, in the same condition would cost me in 9mm. A P226, USP 40 and Glock 23 for barely over a grand combined? I'm in! Reloading lessens the cost considerably and I can download to reduce recoil if I like. I've been becoming a big, big .40 fan for economic reasons

 

[TTSX]

So here's my observation from what sells, I sell all the 9 I can make just about as fast as I can get it in a box. The next most popular calibers sell darn near as fast are .380, 45 acp, 40 S&W and 38 Special all at about the same rate. 10mm, 44 mag and special, 45 Colt and 357 Mag would be the next tier of popularity. The rest of what I make all sells but it might take a month or two to run through the stock.

Speaking to which, sign me up for another box of .380 next time you're at a show at the lane events center. I'll be looking for you

 

[oremike]

I'm having to skip the next Eugene show in two weeks. PM me and we'll can figure out something.

 

[BATTERY]

I would shoot a lot more 10mm but I get my 9mm around $8.33 a box

10mm costs me closer to $17. I shoot around 400 rounds a month so 10mm just doesn't compute.

I can't justify spending a lot on reloading 9. I'm not a good enough shooter to need a custom load yet.

 

[coop44]

I reload, a bit. use 5.9 grains of unique in both 45 & 40, pushin 230 grain and 180 grain bullets respectively. While I have been a 45 fan forever, the 40 is winning me over. The anemic 9 doesn't matter to me at all. All I see from the 9 lovers are justification of a bad decision.

 

[BATTERY]

I think we shoot 9 because it's fun. Lots of rounds accurately on target. It's a sight to see a good shooter put 6 rounds on different targets in about 3.5 seconds. I can't do it yet.

I wonder if anyone has done the math on that. .45.. .40 vs 9mm energy on target accurately. Not 1 shot.. but how much energy can be delivered in a specific timed string. Accurately and under pressure.

 

[CLT65]

As to popularity, I think the .40 is going, or rather has gone, the way of the .38 Special. For decades the lowly .38 was the king with law enforcement, security, and civilian handguns. It's popularity has greatly diminished from what it once was, but it will never be gone. The life cycle, rise and fall, of the .40 S&W as the king was just a little quicker, that's all. But that comparison has probably already been made in this thread, somewhere in the last dozen pages.

The abundance of cheap police trade-in guns in .40 S&W reflects the general exodus in law enforcement away from .40 and back to 9mm. It reminds me of the '90s when cheap .38 and .357 revolvers where available for a while. There was a glut on the market, then things balanced out again.

My favorite cartridge tends to change from month to month, depending on what I feel like. Lately I've been shooting a lot of .38 Special. Recently it was .45 Colt. I'll get on a .45 acp kick for a while, then back to 9mm or .40 for a while. When my son comes with me, we always shoot a lot of .22lr. Sometimes I'll go through a box or two of 7.62x25 or 7.62x38R. Cost of ammo isn't really a factor for me, since I cast and reload my own, but I can see how it would be for those who don't. To each their own.

 

[TTSX]

I think we shoot 9 because it's fun. Lots of rounds accurately on target. It's a sight to see a good shooter put 6 rounds on different targets in about 3.5 seconds. I can't do it yet.

I wonder if anyone has done the math on that. .45.. .40 vs 9mm energy on target accurately. Not 1 shot.. but how much energy can be delivered in a specific timed string. Accurately and under pressure.

What, like DPS in a role playing game? If I recall, the light and fast rogue types tended to have the highest DPS ratings but the slower, heavier warriors would lay the smack down one at a time. Wouldn't be surprised if ammo worked similarly

 

[BATTERY]

What, like DPS in a role playing game? If I recall, the light and fast rogue types tended to have the highest DPS ratings but the slower, heavier warriors would lay the smack down one at a time. Wouldn't be surprised if ammo worked similarly

Not necessarily that type of pressure.

I really enjoy boxing but very few big hitters become champions. Most great fighters deliver a lot of energy per punch and deliver a lot of punches. A guy swinging for the fences often misses. Martial arts guys found out a long time ago one hard punch kill thing doesn't do it. Boxers showed them that.

What I'm saying is. I don't feel under gunned with a 9mm I know o can accurately put a lot of rounds on target. And fast. "Working on the speed".

 

[DeanMk]

So here's my observation from what sells, I sell all the 9 I can make just about as fast as I can get it in a box. The next most popular calibers sell darn near as fast are .380, 45 acp, 40 S&W and 38 Special all at about the same rate. 10mm, 44 mag and special, 45 Colt and 357 Mag would be the next tier of popularity. The rest of what I make all sells but it might take a month or two to run through the stock.

Please forgive my ignorance, but it sounds like you're a retailer Mike.
It also sounds like you sell a lot of 9mm.
Does it move as fast as .22 or faster?

 

[dojiijii]

The anemic 9 doesn't matter to me at all. All I see from the 9 lovers are justification of a bad decision.

Flame on! Lol

 

[cookie]

The 9mm will never ever be ghetto as the fortay!

 

[oremike]

Please forgive my ignorance, but it sounds like you're a retailer Mike.
It also sounds like you sell a lot of 9mm.
Does it move as fast as .22 or faster?

I'm an small ammunition manufacturing company that sells at gun shows and on line. I don't sell .22 because I don't make it. My gut level guess is the .22 would sell more rounds in a given time than 9mm.

 

[oremike]

I think we shoot 9 because it's fun. Lots of rounds accurately on target. It's a sight to see a good shooter put 6 rounds on different targets in about 3.5 seconds. I can't do it yet.

I wonder if anyone has done the math on that. .45.. .40 vs 9mm energy on target accurately. Not 1 shot.. but how much energy can be delivered in a specific timed string. Accurately and under pressure.

I shoot Bowling Pins, Dueling Tree and Speed Steel. So again my personal observations. 9mm won't knock a bowling pin the 4' it needs to travel to fall off the table so requires follow up shots, any time you've got to shoot more than once to get the task completed it takes more time than the "one shot one kill". Next, depending on the dueling tree the 9mm might not get the plates to cam over to the other side so you end up helping the other guy. On the bowling pins more power to knock the pins clear off the table is good, but on Dueling tree too much power will make the plates bounce back. Speed steel is where the 9mm does best but honestly I'm even faster with my .22 Buckmark so for rapid rounds accurate on target that's a good choice it just doesn't knock the plates over like the 9 will.
The timed energy on target math problem you propose is too shooter specific the best you can hope for is what do you shoot fastest and most accurately but someone like Jerry Michlak's numbers will be way different than yours or mine.

 

[bbbass]

.357 sig is one of my favorites and it's more dead than .40. It never got going.

Lighten up folks and fudds. I was just having fun.

Please stop calling NWFA forum members Fudds. It may be true of some, but there's no reason to be offensive.

Lol, the wonder 9 boyz have been trying to "kill" the 40 short n weak since it was spawned from the mighty 10.slide so the 40 was invented just for them. Kinda reminds me of the dem-full-o-craps. Get what they want and still don't like it.

Here's an interesting bit about the history of 10mm and .40S&W. Much of what is often said is urban lore. 10mm Auto vs. .40 S&W: A History of Convolution

I would shoot a lot more 10mm but I get my 9mm around $8.33 a box

I can't justify spending a lot on reloading 9. I'm not a good enough shooter to need a custom load yet.

Agreed. I stopped reloading 9mm when such great deals on 9mm ammo started appearing. I have about 500 bullets left that I will reload as reduced power loads (I have bad arthritis in my hands)

I reload, a bit. use 5.9 grains of unique in both 45 & 40, pushin 230 grain and 180 grain bullets respectively. While I have been a 45 fan forever, the 40 is winning me over. The anemic 9 doesn't matter to me at all. All I see from the 9 lovers are justification of a bad decision.

My first pistol was a .32ACP. My second pistol was a Govt issue 1911 .45ACP. My third was a .41Mag revolver. See the progression? (I tried .44mag but it was just a bit much as I'm a small framed bastid and was a sickly child.)

However, in later years, when I was shooting USPSA, I started shooting a .40S&W Witness. It bucked a little more than the .45 I ended up shooting in competition. The .45 had a push, and the .40 was a little sharper. Then as I continued to age and got arthritis in my hands, my hands got too sore after a day of shooting competition, well over 150rds. I would go home and have to scarf NSAIDs for 2 days to recover. So I switched to 9mm. Eventually even that bothered my hands. Now I'm lookng for a .22 target pistol to shoot steel instead of IDPA. Just a wuss I guess.

How's that for justification???