9mm carbine build vs cz scorpion.

[mattwboyd]

I've found myself in a bit of a pickle. I would like to have a 9mm carbine…pistol…rifle…,whatever the AFT calls it today, for amateur speed steel and two gun and also for a nice backpack gun to take camping, etc.

I have an AR15 lower that I have been planning a build on. Thought this would save me some money. After pricing out a PSA upper, brace, and the rest of the lower parts, I started reaching the price point of a CZ scorpion. Roughly 700-900.
Forums I've read say the pMag casing conversion are unreliable in feeding. Glock mag block is $100 extra.

anyone have experience with mag conversion? Any CZ lovers/ haters that can help guide me?

Read More

 

[Finnthedog]

kalash KP9

 

[Ducati_Meister]

I like my CZ EVO 9mm pistol with the SB Tac brace. I think the prices on the CZ guns are pretty reasonable too. Reliability has been great, plus the looks are killer lol. Mags are not too expensive either and the custom options on the CZ from Manticore etc. are numerous.

 

[Member 34319]

Speed steel and backpack gun don't exactly mix in my opinion.

The CZs run well for those I've seen run them at speed steel events. Most of the faster guys run dedicated 9mm lightweight AR based rigs. Also depending on the club, braced pistols are not allowed. I'm not a fan of the Scorpion due to the poor ergo s, and starting price point vs how much money needs to be dumped into it before it becomes comfortable to shoot.

As for the endo mags. They are ok if running a CMMG delayed bolt as the bolt houses the ejector. If running a regular blowback bolt, the endo mags have a plastic ejector built in and they have been known to be unreliable. Not to mention, say during a speed steel comp, at the end you must show clear. To clear with an endo mag, you would have to remove the magazine, insert an empty magazine and then clear the chambered round, followed by removing the empty mag. If you just remove the mag and rack the bolt, the round will just rechamber.

You might be better off buying a magazine adapter. Like Stern Defense. That's if your using the regular lower. If not I'd say keep an eye out on Primary Arms and or Brownells for Foxtrot Mike AR9 products. They regularly have great deals on complete pistols for around $500-600. They also have complete uppers from them for great prices.

 

[trevi]

I concur with CZ EVO. Admittedly, I sold my two CZ pistols in favour of the Stribog A1 with A3Tactical lower which accepts CZ Scorpion and its copy mags. I still have my CZ EVO carbine; sweet thing it is. I would say go for a build that can accept reliable mag feeding like GLOCK or CZ Scorpion conversions.

 

[SCARed]

For the Scorpion, the only mags you want to buy are the PSA, Magpul, or the windowed CZ mags. All the others have problems/potential problems and you'll probably want to avoid them.

 

[trevi]

For the Scorpion, the only mags you want to buy are the PSA, Magpul, or the windowed CZ mags. All the others have problems/potential problems and you'll probably want to avoid them.

Manticore's great, they have rigid steel feed lips.

 

[Gbirk]

If I had to choose between a Scorpion and an AR15 lower with a mag adapter, I would go Scorpion. Mag adapters suck. I have a braced Scorpion pistol and a Foxtrot Mike AR9 in 7in and 16in. I like them both, and the AR9 is more modular, but the Scorpion is what I take to 2 gun matches because it is more fun to shoot. That said I did upgrade the trigger, safty and a bunch of other stuff on the Scorpion to get it that way. Stock for Stock without the mods I think I would choose the AR9.

 

[Flopsweat]

Manticore's great, they have rigid steel feed lips.

And they will drop free when empty, unlike some of the other brands. I wound up changing the mag release and handgrip for Magpul gear to make mag changes easier. I couldn't fully depress the mag release without changing my grip. If you have big hands in may not be an issue. I found that I liked the new grip angle better too. While I was at it I installed the MCARBO trigger upgrade and I'm very glad I did. The gun is noticeably heavier than an AR in 9mm but smoother, as would be expected. All told, not including optics, I'd say I have about $1200 in it. I absolutely love it and I'm glad I got it before an AR in 9mm. Shooting steel with it is huge fun. I've shot it alongside an MP5 a lot and it holds its own - I'm about equally fast with either. I broke the feed lips on the CZ 30rd mags by dropping them on the ground while they were loaded. Tried a bunch of different ones and I like the Manticores a lot. The factory sling is actually really nice once it's adjusted (and assembled ) properly.

edit:

Reading Gbirk's reply, I remember I installed the safety ambi delete too, and took a left handed friend to the range a few days later. The way my hand is shaped, the left hand safety switch would dig into it. Not the end of the world but it was uncomfortable and the rest of the gun was so damn nice.

 

[Dirty Cary]

I've been looking at a scorpion for awhile, also looking at a striborg also not sure what I'll end up with..

 

[Flopsweat]

I've been looking at a scorpion for awhile, also looking at a striborg also not sure what I'll end up with..

Stribog seems like a lot for the money. It's on my list and I already have the Scorpion.

 

[mattwboyd]

Thanks everyone for the feedback and advice! Important to make mention, I'm not incredibly interested in being competitive with this weapon at the two competitions I mentioned. I'm more interested in participating to learn and get better. That's why I was thinking scorpion since it achieves the compact hike defense/backpack gun as well.

still a lot to weigh and consider but I appreciate all the comments!

 

[Gbirk]

Thanks everyone for the feedback and advice! Important to make mention, I'm not incredibly interested in being competitive with this weapon at the two competitions I mentioned. I'm more interested in participating to learn and get better. That's why I was thinking scorpion since it achieves the compact hike defense/backpack gun as well.

still a lot to weigh and consider but I appreciate all the comments!

If you are doing speed steel or 2 gun at Tri-county feel free to PM me and I would be happy to let you try my Scorpion or AR9. I frequently shoot both of those (although usually shoot pistol for speed steel).

 

[GWS]

Folks are running with the Ruger PCC. It can take Glock magazines with the supplied adapter, It can easily be broken down to 2 pieces to stuff in your backpack.
I have that as well as the CZ EVO Scorpion and the Stribog
The Scorpion wins on looks but I changed out the stiff trigger for a better one and got a different, smaller ambi safety because the OE one chewed on my hand. It shoots great now but it cost another hundred plus to do it.
The Stribog is cool. It is the lightest of the three by far and has and comes in a neat, James Bond case but the bad part is there's no space for an optic in that case. The magazines that come with it are fragile, so you'll need to find the new, steel-lipped ones for better durability.
The Ruger is the most accurate, Hey! It's a carbine vs pistols And it's the least expensive. The ability to switch to Glock magazines is a real plus
The Scorpion is heavy and shoots well, but shoots better if you do upgrades. That big safety on the right side has to go, it really bites into you if you have large hands.
The Stribog is the lightest, it comes with a better trigger IMO, than the others and for me its fun to shoot.

My issue with the Stribog and Scorpion is that they really are meant to be full auto guns and I always feel slightly disappointed when I shoot them because they would really shine as a submachinegun, but they are dumbed down by NFA laws.
I think if I could only have one of the three I would probably go with the Ruger. It shoots nicely , breaks down for easy packing and is the most accurate of the three. It costs less and can be fired as quickly as the others.

That's my 2 cents YMMV

 

[Alexr4920]

Well, The AR platform doesn't have enough mass in the bolt carrier for a 9mm blowback, so the AR will run harder (more parts wear/breakage). -It looks cool. ...