7 Dead in drive-by near UC Santa Barbara...

[RicInOR]

http://www.esquire.com/features/drugging-of-the-american-boy-0414?src=soc_twtr
"By the time they reach high school, nearly 20 percent of all American boys will be diagnosed with ADHD. Millions of those boys will be prescribed a powerful stimulant to "normalize" them. A great many of those boys will suffer serious side effects from those drugs. The shocking truth is that many of those diagnoses are wrong, and that most of those boys are being drugged for no good reason—simply for being boys. It's time we recognize this as a crisis."

 

[Dave Workman]

Washington CeaseFire chief admits tough laws didn't stop Isla Vista

In a stunning acknowledgement this morning during the last half-hour of KVI's John Carlson show, the head of Washington CeaseFire said that there probably is no law that could have prevented the Santa Barbara spree killing.


<broken link removed>

 

[OLDNEWBIE]

http://www.esquire.com/features/drugging-of-the-american-boy-0414?src=soc_twtr
"By the time they reach high school, nearly 20 percent of all American boys will be diagnosed with ADHD. Millions of those boys will be prescribed a powerful stimulant to "normalize" them. A great many of those boys will suffer serious side effects from those drugs. The shocking truth is that many of those diagnoses are wrong, and that most of those boys are being drugged for no good reason—simply for being boys. It's time we recognize this as a crisis."

Also this: <broken link removed>
Arnett says that on the whole, the U.S. is increasingly receptive to the idea that it takes longer to reach full adulthood than it did in the past. He points to a shifting economy, going from manufacturing to one more based on technology, where it takes an increased level of training and experience to get a decent long-term job.

"Another reason for the longer entry into adulthood may be that American society has become more tolerant of young people using most of their twenties to make their way to adulthood at a gradual pace, and enjoy a period of fun and freedom before taking on the enduring responsibilities of adult life," says Arnett's latest report , entitled "Parents and Their Grown Kids."

 

[RicInOR]

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/379025/murder-show-kevin-d-williamson

"The phenomenon of mass killings has little to do with race, sex, politics, economics, or the availability of legal firearms. Such episodes are primarily an act of theater."

Somewhat on point to post #105
"His was an individualism suffered as a burden. In another century, his life might have been given some structure by the church or by his extended family, or simply by the fundamental struggle to feed and shelter himself, which was the organizing principle of the great majority of human lives for millennia. Modernity sets us free, but it does not offer any answer to the question, "Free to do what?"



I wish he had included a reference to this claim:
"The data suggest that in the U.S. context police officers are more likely to commit homicide than are members of the general public. Pass all the laws you like, but remember who enforces them."

 

[RicInOR]

Back to post 105

"Another reason for the longer entry into adulthood may be that American society has become more tolerant of young people using most of their twenties to make their way to adulthood at a gradual pace, and enjoy a period of fun and freedom before taking on the enduring responsibilities of adult life," "

Because they are not going to starve if they don't feed themselves. Are they competing for jobs with the foreign born guests of the USA ? Who is responsible for that? Some goes on the "everyone gets a trophy" mentality, some goes on the parents who want to be their kids friends rather than their parents, some goes on an liberal education basis - where everyone 'has to have' a college education.

 

[OLDNEWBIE]

"by the fundamental struggle to feed and shelter himself, which was the organizing principle of the great majority of human lives for millennia."

I think young progressives call this being a "wage slave".

 

[Dave Workman]

Back to post 105

"Another reason for the longer entry into adulthood may be that American society has become more tolerant of young people using most of their twenties to make their way to adulthood at a gradual pace, and enjoy a period of fun and freedom before taking on the enduring responsibilities of adult life," "

Because they are not going to starve if they don't feed themselves. Are they competing for jobs with the foreign born guests of the USA ? Who is responsible for that? Some goes on the "everyone gets a trophy" mentality, some goes on the parents who want to be their kids friends rather than their parents, some goes on an liberal education basis - where everyone 'has to have' a college education.

Interesting observations.
This is one downside to allowing a flood of illegals to cross the borders. Entry level jobs are disappearing for American kids fresh out of high school or even in high school, trying to save money for college.

If one reads Rodger's "manifesto" you will discover that this rancid individual thought entry level jobs were beneath him. He fancied himself a gifted intellectual, a "god" to whom beautiful blonde women should flock just so they could be his sex toys. We are talking about one incredibly narcissistic sociopath.

One thing I learned from working the Ted Bundy story all those years ago (he dumped a lot of bodies out near the community where I was editor of a weekly newspaper at the time) I learned that sociopaths are able to fool a lot of people. Read the manifesto if you have the stomach. Sections will really creep you out.

 

[SPU]

My sister eventually became a therapist. Has been one for about 40 years. Yes, a good therapist in a life and death situation will cancel appointments and deal with the emergency. What I see here are two things that apparently led to this tragedy:

1. The therapist did not convey to the police the gravity of the threat. Had the therapist noted that there was a danger of undirected violence with weapons against the public, the police should have (and could have) gotten a search warrant for the apartment.

2. If the therapist did actually note that there was a danger of undirected violence with weapons against the public, and the police either ignored it, or didn't understand it, then that points to a lack of appropriate mechanisms to insure that accurate communication happens, and appropriate actions are taken.

It sounds to me like both were contributing factors here.

There is a series of videos that psychology students studying for licensing as therapists can review. It was part of one of my university classes in psychotherapy. In it, experienced therapists who are leaders in the field, and often times, inventors of certain therapeutic strategies interviewed real clients to demonstrate the principles involved. Oddly enough, it was not Dr. Phil who invented the phrase, "How's that working for you?" It was Fritz Perls on one of these tapes who was talking with a client who resided in a state penitentiary. The client sounded much like the perp here. Nobody in his life had appreciated his genius, or his abilities. He was a god among mortals, who did exactly as he pleased whenever he pleased. Nobody controlled him or told him what to do. Perls then noted that the client now resided in a place where he was told what to wear, what to eat, when to sleep, and when to get up, and asked, "How is that working for you?"

All of this is to say, that in my opinion, the therapist didn't adequately communicate the situation, the police didn't adequately respond to the situation, the system wasn't (and isn't) set up to adequately respond to the situation, and the perp could not have been more conspicuous in his craziness to a competent health care professional if he were wearing a zebra suit and waving red flags with "CRAZY!" emblazoned on them in flaming letters. He was a textbook example of a sociopath; smart, manipulative, self-pitying, self-justifying, and an egomaniac. Other people were not human beings to him, just objects to be used for his own gratification. It's really hard to miss.

Respectfully: "Yes, a good therapist in a life and death situation will cancel appointments and deal with the emergency. " No, it does not work that way except on TV, unless it is happening in your office or building. See my reasoning in my post. I have a Master's in Psychiatric Nursing from a good school, making me a licensed therapist for 20 years, and a consultant to others, among other things. I know of what I speak on that subject.

As for the therapist possibly (we don't know) not communicating the gravity of the situation, I raised that in my post as well. The difficulty in the law and the gray in decision making is the term IMMINENT threat. Courts and police rarely give a lot of weight, for instance to something that is not happening today. Unless a clear pattern of behaviors or a threat is happening today, it typically is given less weight.

Frankly, it still disturbs me how many people in society continue to want to place less and less responsibility on the individual for their actions. In days past we blamed psychosis on schizophrenegenic mothers (patently and proven a false and hurtful canard), or various attitudes and actions on the race we belonged to, for example. We need to look to the motivations of the individual more and parents, police, laws, therapists, etc. less.

I still believe in free will. Including the poor or evil exercise of free will.

 

[SPU]

Maybe the reason this waste of human skin wasn't getting any was that the girls his age weren't idiots - they could tell a psychopath loser from the other guys and didn't want to get involved. His over-inflated view of himself was probably the very factor that drove them away. He thought he should have it all - thought he deserved to have it all. Most girls aren't so stupid as to be sucked in by the likes of him. Seems at least the girls knew something was really wrong with this guy. Thank goodness they stayed away.

Let's hope so! Including my daughter...

 

[coyote223]

I wonder what would happen to a conservative wishing death upon liberals, homosexuals or Muslims?

View attachment 87951

Holders dept of Injustice would pay them a visit,,,

 

[BAMCIS]

Not to sound tasteless or unfeeling, but has "vetted" Mr. Martinez. Were his feelings on the 2A known before last weekend? Did he donate money (or time) to the Brady bunch? Or group(s) like the Brady bunch?

It seems like he has been anti-gun for a long time. Probably life long.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Respectfully: "Yes, a good therapist in a life and death situation will cancel appointments and deal with the emergency. " No, it does not work that way except on TV, unless it is happening in your office or building.

My sister, an LCSW, and her partner routinely rescheduled non-critical appointments when they needed to be with someone in a crisis. My sister no longer works with the general public. For about the last 10 years her practice is entirely composed of other therapists. I don't know how things work where you are, but that's how it worked with her. I was on track to get my license as well, but life got in the way, and now I have other priorities.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Interesting observations.
This is one downside to allowing a flood of illegals to cross the borders. Entry level jobs are disappearing for American kids fresh out of high school or even in high school, trying to save money for college.

There's a lot written about the unrealistic images society presents to young women. Body image, careers, motherhood, etc. set them up for failure before they ever get started. Almost nothing is written about the unrealistic images set up for young men. In grade school they are taught that there are no losers, that trying hard is good enough, that rewards don't have to be earned or competed for. Then in high school it's more of the same, and their counselors tell them that the sky is the limit. Everyone can become a brain surgeon or a lawyer if they just do their homework. In college they are taught that their opinions are just as valuable as anyone else's, and that there's no reason they can't become anything they desire, regardless of their actual abilities.

At the same time, from society they hear that in order to be successful they must own a large house, drive an expensive car, possess the hottest women, go to the most exclusive parties, and become millionaires before the age of 30. If you doubt this scenario, just think about how senior prom is done these days. Expectations are engendered in these kids that are so unrealistic it's laughable. About the time they complete their first year of college reality starts to set in. They aren't going to be millionaires. They can't afford any car, much less a Lexus or a BMW. They aren't going to get the girl of everyone's dreams. All their lives they've been told that these things define success, and anything else is failure. So what does an angry 22 year old failure do? He commits suicide. But he fully understands now how little his existence counts in the world, so he decides to take as many people with him as he can in order to make sure that the world notices his anger and his exit.

I'm in no way excusing what this sociopath did. Most young men survive this rude awakening. The weak, the sick, and the entitled sometimes don't. They go over the edge into suicidal fantasies of a glorious flame out. We have no mechanisms in place to identify these individuals, and when they are identified, we have no mechanisms to deal with them. They are routinely medicated and sent home to the care of their unqualified and overwhelmed families. Something needs to change, and it's not anything to do with guns.

 

[SPU]

oops, duplicate post.

 

[SPU]

My sister, an LCSW, and her partner routinely rescheduled non-critical appointments when they needed to be with someone in a crisis. My sister no longer works with the general public. For about the last 10 years her practice is entirely composed of other therapists. I don't know how things work where you are, but that's how it worked with her. I was on track to get my license as well, but life got in the way, and now I have other priorities.

That is a different situation. Perfectly understandable and I think we are talking apples and oranges. I routinely squeeze in patients or stay late, talk to them on the phone or answer an email, see them during lunches, etc. if they need it. It is one thing to see a patient in the office, quite another to reschedule a big block of time to go into a potentially dangerous situation in the community, IF you even know they will be there when you get there. One of the jobs I had to earn money in grad. school was doing home visits to check on patients on weekends and holidays, not to mention training in community mental health with all home visits or trips to the local Missions and flop houses. It was amazing the number of wasted visits and time spent, despite a scheduled home appointment -- let alone leave for a (possibly?) unannounced welfare check. Anyway, my central theme is it makes no sense from a legal, safety or time-management sense to go see someone who you think is potentially dangerous. Maybe others disagree, but I know of nobody in the past ten years doing that -- even the local County Mental Health Department I worked at, and the agency I work for now consider it dangerous in situations like this, and policies are in place to avoid it. Regular established patients that are meek as lambs (The vast majority of mentally ill), not a problem. Even then, if a therapist/case manager has a gut feeling, they are encouraged to go with a partner or see them in an office. With the info on Roger we have, my gut would be roiling and flags waving not to go.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

That is a different situation. Perfectly understandable and I think we are talking apples and oranges. I routinely squeeze in patients or stay late, talk to them on the phone or answer an email, see them during lunches, etc. if they need it. It is one thing to see a patient in the office, quite another to reschedule a big block of time to go into a potentially dangerous situation in the community, IF you even know they will be there when you get there. One of the jobs I had to earn money in grad. school was doing home visits to check on patients on weekends and holidays, not to mention training in community mental health with all home visits or trips to the local Missions and flop houses. It was amazing the number of wasted visits and time spent, despite a scheduled home appointment -- let alone leave for a (possibly?) unannounced welfare check. Anyway, my central theme is it makes no sense from a legal, safety or time-management sense to go see someone who you think is potentially dangerous. Maybe others disagree, but I know of nobody in the past ten years doing that -- even the local County Mental Health Department I worked at, and the agency I work for now consider it dangerous in situations like this, and policies are in place to avoid it. Regular established patients that are meek as lambs (The vast majority of mentally ill), not a problem. Even then, if a therapist/case manager has a gut feeling, they are encouraged to go with a partner or see them in an office. With the info on Roger we have, my gut would be roiling and flags waving not to go.

Yes, things have changed drastically in the mental health care community. Insurance companies have driven the concepts of "brief therapy", where counseling is limited to 6 or 8 visits, and outpatient care based on drugs. See them briefly, give them some pills, and wish them luck.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Another problem we have in our society is a lack of an initiation ritual for boys to welcome them to the community of adult men. In primitive cultures, the boy is kidnapped from his mother by his uncles and/or other unrelated adult males, and taken to a place where he is given the knowledge necessary to assume an adult role. He might also get a tattoo, or suffer a small wound. He might have to perform a quest, like killing a dangerous animal. If he performs satisfactorily and survives, he is recognized by his community as a man from that point forward, with all the rights and responsibilities of an adult male.

Our only equivalent to this ritual is military boot camp, and with an all volunteer army, fewer and fewer of our boys undergo that initiation. They remain boys well into their 20's and longer. The prevalence of single motherhood exacerbates the situation, as there isn't even a male role model available. It's no wonder that young women today either lament that there are no real men to be had out there, or resign themselves to marrying and raising a grown child, who remains a boy at heart, and depends on "Mommy" to be the breadwinner, while he hangs with his friends and baby sits.

 

[RicInOR]

This thread has meandered - so re 119 Ritual for Adulthood.

What is an adult age?

I could argue 12 as some at that age have been charged as adults in heinous criminal cases. http://goo.gl/DXhfD2

16 - the age you get to drive.

18 - the age you get to do more stuff - join the military, vote, smoke.

21 - the age you get to drink

In the Jewish tradition, adult is signified with completion of Bar Mitzva / Bat Mitzva. According to Jewish law, when Jewish boys become 13 years old, they become accountable for their actions and become a bar mitzvah.

In the Catholic tradition, adult is signified after the Sacrament of Confirmation.


So yes, I think as a society we have deferred on this concept.


I don't know what your BASIC was like, I spent mine all of 2 weeks at the first resort in the USA. Cape May, NJ. <broken link removed>

 

[Riot]

A good read into comparing active shooters to terrorism

http://markmanson.net/school-shootings