National 6 Year old Killed by "unloaded" Gun

[etrain16]

I will add this - the following quote from the story:

"Yet accidental shootings are a significant cause of death in the U.S."

Really is an unnecessary attempt to push gun control language and hyperbole into the story. I take umbrage with the word "significant". There are roughly 33,000 firearms deaths every year. Of those, 2/3 are suicide, 1/3 are homicide and a very small (though not insignificant) amount are accidental. There is nothing "significant" about the number. Each year, over 12,000 children under 19 are killed accidentally. The majority of those, the actual "significant" number is due to automobile accidents. #2 is drowning. In fact, the number doesn't even warrant a separate line in the CDC report - accidental firearm deaths are lumped in as "other" along with machinery, struck-by and overexertion. I only state this because I continue to be frustrated by those that continually turn the tragedies of others into political wrangling.

 

[peternov01]

not to start a war here but can someone tell me how you can "clean a gun" with a bullet in it? Every time i'm cleaning my guns the gun is disassembled. if you haven't ran a bore brush or some other jag or something down the boar you didn't clean your gun you just wiped the dust off. this crap just makes me so mad a little kid is dead because some dumb bubblegum was playing with his gun and is trying to use the "i was cleaning it" excuse.

 

[American123]

not to start a war here but can someone tell me how you can "clean a gun" with a bullet in it? Every time i'm cleaning my guns the gun is disassembled. if you haven't ran a bore brush or some other jag or something down the boar you didn't clean your gun you just wiped the dust off. this crap just makes me so mad a little kid is dead because some dumb bubblegum was playing with his gun and is trying to use the "i was cleaning it" excuse.

Your hypothesis is probably very accurate, it was probably easier in the idiots mind to blame what happened on cleaning the firearm rather than admitting he was fingering the pistol playing around and to such a careless extent that his child is now dead.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

sad.

i make it easy on myself. i treat all my guns as if theyre loaded because theyre always loaded.

 

[DuneHopper]

I have zero Sympathy for this guy at all. Empathy perhaps because it was not done on purpose.
In my life I have seen many a people f-up and then blame everything but themselves.

The reality is this moron was thinking of something else, and not the safety of his family.
You ever see that yahoo ( we all have) blowing stop lights or speeding with kids in the car.
That there is another moron not thinking of safety of his family.
This act by the father falls between accident and lazyness and that equals negligence.
I am sure he misses his kid allot and regrets what he had done, perhaps if he initially care this much
it could have been avoided. They key there is avoided, its not an accident if it could have been avoided.
Just like that guy speeding, its not an accident when you do something stupid, so you didn't accidentally shoot her
you negligently did and someone died because of it.
And accident is when something happens and there was no foreseen outcome or prevention.
I guess its glad I wont be on his Jury, I am not as forgiving as some.

 

[stick655]

I have zero Sympathy for this guy at all. Empathy perhaps because it was not done on purpose.
In my life I have seen many a people f-up and then blame everything but themselves.

The reality is this moron was thinking of something else, and not the safety of his family.
You ever see that yahoo ( we all have) blowing stop lights or speeding with kids in the car.
That there is another moron not thinking of safety of his family.
This act by the father falls between accident and lazyness and that equals negligence.
I am sure he misses his kid allot and regrets what he had done, perhaps if he initially care this much
it could have been avoided. They key there is avoided, its not an accident if it could have been avoided.
Just like that guy speeding, its not an accident when you do something stupid, so you didn't accidentally shoot her
you negligently did and someone died because of it.
And accident is when something happens and there was no foreseen outcome or prevention.
I guess its glad I wont be on his Jury, I am not as forgiving as some.

This was the soapbox I was going to stand on. I was too pissed to type something rational and not offensive.

 

[bbbass]

[QUOTE="AndyinEverson, post: 2015215, member: 40804"

Folks at times can take things for granted and when you get complacent around things like :
Knives...
Power tools...
Ladders...
Cars...
Slippery steps...
Firearms...
All sorts of mishaps can happen.
Do not allow yourself to get complacent.

Andy[/QUOTE]

Please add SNOW to your list. My back was broken when I fell cuz I went out to get the paper in my slippers.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

[QUOTE="AndyinEverson, post: 2015215, member: 40804"

Folks at times can take things for granted and when you get complacent around things like :
Knives...
Power tools...
Ladders...
Cars...
Slippery steps...
Firearms...
All sorts of mishaps can happen.
Do not allow yourself to get complacent.

Andy

Please add SNOW to your list. My back was broken when I fell cuz I went out to get the paper in my slippers. [/QUOTE]

I'd add snow...but it might just be best if we just wrap ourselves in Bubble wrap and circle the Earth with "Caution" tape....
Andy

 

[bbbass]

Please add SNOW to your list. My back was broken when I fell cuz I went out to get the paper in my slippers.

I'd add snow...but it might just be best if we just wrap ourselves in Bubble wrap and circle the Earth with "Caution" tape....
Andy[/QUOTE]

Makes me think of a shroud and police tape.

 

[rick benjamin]

The most successful firearms advertisers of all time (anti-gunners) are responsible for this generation of new gun owners. They come in all ages, etc. They don't know, didn't grow up with gun safety.

 

[bbbass]

Early on in my gun journey I had a thing about unloading my gun every night. One night I racked the slide for the chambered round, then dropped the mag. I was just about to pull the trigger to drop the striker and something yelled inside me!

Yes, drop the mag first! I've come so close to this a number of times, and then tell myself to wake the hell up!!!

I continue to be frustrated by those that continually turn the tragedies of others into political wrangling.

Like creating more laws to penalize???

not to start a war here but can someone tell me how you can "clean a gun" with a bullet in it? Every time i'm cleaning my guns the gun is disassembled. if you haven't ran a bore brush or some other jag or something down the boar you didn't clean your gun you just wiped the dust off. this crap just makes me so mad a little kid is dead because some dumb bubblegum was playing with his gun and is trying to use the "i was cleaning it" excuse.

I disagree. Cleaning a firearm requires several steps and who is to say "I was cleaning my gun" is in what stage of the procedure. No need to interpret common phrases in the worst possible manner...

And accident is when something happens and there was no foreseen outcome or prevention.

"Your honor I came out to the LV room and found a 14yr old asleep on the couch and when I went over to check on her I slipped and fell and my morning erect ding-dong accidentally impaled her in her private part."

 

[LuckySG]

I had posted in another thread, (Short version ) saw pistol unloaded by my son, son holstered the firearm.
Later gave it to me to clean. I checked at once out of habit had all live rounds in it. Even saw it unloaded doesn't mater once it leaves your hands reset that clock always. I am super anal about it like many others.

It makes me smile and feel that the world can go on another day when I hand a firearm to a customer after they see me verify it is clear and check for themselves.

 

[Wombat of Doom]

Does anybody actually clean a gun without dissasembly? I just don't get how it happens.

I believe the gun is unloaded when the chamber is detached from the assembly that holds the firing mechanism. If the barrel and chamber are detached...

I just don't get it at all. If your gun is still assembled enough to fire I don't believe you have any business cleaning it.

 

[Boboclown]

It doesn't hurt to check a gun to see if its loaded

Being bitten by the action disagrees... But I still have a finger so there's that.

 

[3MTA3]

Yes, drop the mag first! I've come so close to this a number of times, and then tell myself to wake the hell up!!!

I was taught that for any mag fed firearm to cycle the slide three times, since it would ensure that if you accidentally left it in you would be alerted when unexpected ammunition was ejected. I also pinky check any firearm and use chamber flags at the range and especially any time I teach a new shooter.

 

[bsa1917hunter]

I think the same thing sometimes. Don't want to piss off some of the younger generation, but some are downright ignorant when it comes to gun safety. I also have to say, I am sad for the family. Anytime a young life is taken, it's a heartbreaking thing that happens.

 

[bsa1917hunter]

The most successful firearms advertisers of all time (anti-gunners) are responsible for this generation of new gun owners. They come in all ages, etc. They don't know, didn't grow up with gun safety.

 

[CLT65]

I've had people question why it's really necessary to treat every gun as a loaded gun. One girl I was teaching to shoot told me that she'd been told that every gun is a loaded gun, and that she thought that was silly because it obviously isn't true.

I much prefer to say that you need to develop an ingrained habit to treat every gun you touch as if it were loaded. It needs to become an instinctual habit, something you do each and every time without thinking. There will come a time at some point in your life, when you are distracted, exhausted, scared, nervous, etc., and you will handle a loaded gun that you are certain in your mind is unloaded. It will happen at some point to anyone who handles guns. If checking and muzzle control are instinctual to you, you'll catch it quick and it's no big deal. If not, it could be fatal. For those that don't know the story, google Bill Jordan accidental shooting 1956.

Heartbreaking. Preventable. Things like this should never happen. I constantly stress safety. It's a big deal. I do feel terrible for the father involved. Yes, I expect it probably was horrible carelessness on his part, but it could easily be you or me instead, if we don't remember and practice safety every single time we handle a firearm.

They key there is avoided, its not an accident if it could have been avoided.

I don't mean to nitpick, but that's not entirely correct.

Definition of accident

1 a : an unforeseen and unplanned event or circumstance - "Their meeting was an accident."
b : lack of intention or necessity : chance - "They met by accident rather than by design."

2 a : an unfortunate event resulting especially from carelessness or ignorance - "was involved in a traffic accident"

I'm not sure where everyone in the gun community gets the idea that because something is negligent or preventable, it's not an accident; and that a negligent discharge is not an accidental discharge. I remember overhearing someone at a range once loudly and angrily insisting that a "negligent discharge IS NOT an accidental discharge". In reality, every dictionary of the English language says otherwise. Just because something was accidental doesn't mean someone wasn't negligent, careless, or just flat out stupid. And... using the excuse that "It was an accident" does not absolve you of guilt, even though my kids seem to think it does somehow...

 

[stick655]

I'm not sure where everyone in the gun community gets the idea that because something is negligent or preventable, it's not an accident; and that a negligent discharge is not an accidental discharge. I remember overhearing someone at a range once loudly and angrily insisting that a "negligent discharge IS NOT an accidental discharge". In reality, every dictionary of the English language says otherwise. Just because something was accidental doesn't mean someone wasn't negligent, careless, or just flat out stupid. And... using the excuse that "It was an accident" does not absolve you of guilt, even though my kids seem to think it does somehow...[/QUOTE]

I am a firm believer that anyone who knows how a firearm operates cannot have an accidental discharge (caveat: if the firearm is not mechanically sound there could be an accident).

One has to actively engage the trigger in order for the firearm to discharge. That is not an accident, that was purposeful.

Also, the Marines have four safety rules, these are what I live by and what I teach my kids. My eight year old can recite these to me, not verbatim, but close enough.
1. Treat every weapon as if it were loaded.
2. Never point a weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot.
3. Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you are ready to fire.
4. Keep the weapon on safe until you intend to fire.
Also, when handing firearms to someone else, we are taught to lock the bolt (or slide) to the rear and visually clear the weapon while verbally saying "clear." Once it has been handed over, the recipient shall duplicate the same process before sending the bolt home. And while no one can be at 100%, 100% of the time, these types of tragedies are so easily preventable.

 

[bsa1917hunter]

I'm not sure where everyone in the gun community gets the idea that because something is negligent or preventable, it's not an accident; and that a negligent discharge is not an accidental discharge. I remember overhearing someone at a range once loudly and angrily insisting that a "negligent discharge IS NOT an accidental discharge". In reality, every dictionary of the English language says otherwise. Just because something was accidental doesn't mean someone wasn't negligent, careless, or just flat out stupid. And... using the excuse that "It was an accident" does not absolve you of guilt, even though my kids seem to think it does somehow...

I am a firm believer that anyone who knows how a firearm operates cannot have an accidental discharge (caveat: if the firearm is not mechanically sound there could be an accident).

One has to actively engage the trigger in order for the firearm to discharge. That is not an accident, that was purposeful.

Also, the Marines have four safety rules, these are what I live by and what I teach my kids. My eight year old can recite these to me, not verbatim, but close enough.
1. Treat every weapon as if it were loaded.
2. Never point a weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot.
3. Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you are ready to fire.
4. Keep the weapon on safe until you intend to fire.
Also, when handing firearms to someone else, we are taught to lock the bolt (or slide) to the rear and visually clear the weapon while verbally saying "clear." Once it has been handed over, the recipient shall duplicate the same process before sending the bolt home. And while no one can be at 100%, 100% of the time, these types of tragedies are so easily preventable.

Amen!!!!! Guys like you and I and many here had our fathers and grandfathers drilling gun safety into our heads probably from the time we were tiny children. We learned to appreciate what they were teaching us, because it was for our own good and the safety of others around us. We were taught that once we send it, we can never bring it back. Guns don't "accidentally" go off, unless there's a mechanical failure of some sort. We have to press the trigger and send that bullet on its way. That's on us, if we send it unintentionally. That's why it was drilled into our heads to always check, always treat it if it were loaded, keep it pointed in a safe direction!!!!!!!!!!!