4mm rimfire German Shuetzen rifle.

[nextgenar]

Here is an interesting old German rifle, I recently acquired from the brother of the WW2 vet that brought it home. It's chambered for a 4 mm rimfire round. When I got it, it was so dirty and covered in years of soot and gunk, that I didn't realize it was engraved until I started cleaning the poor thing, it cleaned up pretty well and functions and fires as it should. A beautiful piece of old word craftsmanship.

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[F2CMaDMaXX]

That's some pretty involved woodwork there.

 

[Ura-Ki]

WOW!

 

[joken]

You can still buy ammo. It's like a large ornate pellet gun.

 

[asbtg]

That's spectacular! Is that in the category of "Gallery" guns for social shooting engagements in high society back then?

 

[joken]

That's spectacular! Is that in the category of "Gallery" guns for social shooting engagements in high society back then?

I believe you are correct. I just read a post from a guy that said his grandpa had one when he was a kid and they had shooting contests in the basement. This wasn't back in the day though.

 

[nextgenar]

That's spectacular! Is that in the category of "Gallery" guns for social shooting engagements in high society back then?

I believe you are correct, I've heard them called, pub, or beer hall rifles. They would hold shooting contests inside the beer halls, sounds like great fun to me.

 

[nextgenar]

You can still buy ammo. It's like a large ornate pellet gun.

Yes Ammo is still available and quite common in Europe, I only found one source in the US and I purchased 200 rounds for it, it is a blast to shoot

 

[finnmike]

Carefully remove the fore stock; the wood near the the receiver can be thin and fragile. Beneath the barrel will be proof, date and caliber markings. A photo of same will be appreciated. I have some reference books for assistance.

 

[nextgenar]

Carefully remove the fore stock; the wood near the the receiver can be thin and fragile. Beneath the barrel will be proof, date and caliber markings. A photo of same will be appreciated. I have some reference books for assistance.

Here are all the markings under the fore stock, as well as at the back of the breach, thanks

 

[edzz]

Very jealous.
Tis a thing of beauty.
Thanks for sharing.

 

[finnmike]

Your fine rifle is known as a Zimmerschuetzen, or rimfire parlor rifle. Many were loaded with a mid-barrel mechanism, due to the low powder charge pushing the 4 to 6mm rimfire cartridge. Bore dimensions varied and the ammunition was manufactured to reflect these variance. Scheutzen matches were all the rage in this country from 1890 to WW1, after which all things German became unpopular.

The action is a Haenel Aydt, a popular action. The levers on the side are for take down of the tilting block and lever. The double set triggers can be removed by opening the lever, then pulling the knob behind the trigger plate down and out. To properly manage the triggers to unset, push the forward trigger forward while pulling the rear. The screw between the the triggers adjusts the tension and letoff.

The stock is of the Tyrolean style with tasteful checkering and engraving. Is the thumb piece finely attached? The fore end mark is likely that of the maker. That may be found under the the butt plate. Remarkably, it appears to have an an original rear peep as well as open sights. Is the front sight adjustable, that is, does it have rotating posts? Mine does.

Barrel markings are, from top to bottom, Otto Klett, assembler of the rifle from the Haenel Aydt action and Max Moller, barrel maker of Zella-Mehlis. Second photo is the Mellis old tree mark with a first nitro proof. The 123 is likely the number of the rifle made by his shop.

Bottom photo of the breech face : counter clockwise from the bottom - old tree mark as above; first proof; unknown as I can't make it out; and MM for Max Moller barrel maker, Zella-Mehlis. Möller E. Möller; Zella Mehlis in Thüringen, Germany. Listed in 1930 as a master gunsmith. Moller Max Möller; Zella Mehlis in Thüringen. Listed in 1930–9 as a gun barrel maker.

Here are a few pics of my 8x15R Haenel Aydt, made in 1926. ASSRA Forum - I have a treasure - 1926 Haenel Aydt. Also, go here: Schuetzen - German Gun Collectors Association Forums for more assistance.

Your rifle should have matching serial numbers on the barrel sight, rear peep, set trigger assembly, and buttplate. The receiver may be engraved or etched, either were popular. Cheers, and congrats on a great piece of history.

 

[nextgenar]

Your fine rifle is known as a Zimmerschuetzen, or rimfire parlor rifle. Many were loaded with a mid-barrel mechanism, due to the low powder charge pushing the 4 to 6mm rimfire cartridge. Bore dimensions varied and the ammunition was manufactured to reflect these variance. Scheutzen matches were all the rage in this country from 1890 to WW1, after which all things German became unpopular.

The action is a Haenel Aydt, a popular action. The levers on the side are for take down of the tilting block and lever. The double set triggers can be removed by opening the lever, then pulling the knob behind the trigger plate down and out. To properly manage the triggers to unset, push the forward trigger forward while pulling the rear. The screw between the the triggers adjusts the tension and letoff.

The stock is of the Tyrolean style with tasteful checkering and engraving. Is the thumb piece finely attached? The fore end mark is likely that of the maker. That may be found under the the butt plate. Remarkably, it appears to have an an original rear peep as well as open sights. Is the front sight adjustable, that is, does it have rotating posts? Mine does.

Barrel markings are, from top to bottom, Otto Klett, assembler of the rifle from the Haenel Aydt action and Max Moller, barrel maker of Zella-Mehlis. Second photo is the Mellis old tree mark with a first nitro proof. The 123 is likely the number of the rifle made by his shop.

Bottom photo of the breech face : counter clockwise from the bottom - old tree mark as above; first proof; unknown as I can't make it out; and MM for Max Moller barrel maker, Zella-Mehlis. Möller E. Möller; Zella Mehlis in Thüringen, Germany. Listed in 1930 as a master gunsmith. Moller Max Möller; Zella Mehlis in Thüringen. Listed in 1930–9 as a gun barrel maker.

Here are a few pics of my 8x15R Haenel Aydt, made in 1926. ASSRA Forum - I have a treasure - 1926 Haenel Aydt. Also, go here: Schuetzen - German Gun Collectors Association Forums for more assistance.

Your rifle should have matching serial numbers on the barrel sight, rear peep, set trigger assembly, and buttplate. The receiver may be engraved or etched, either were popular. Cheers, and congrats on a great piece of history.

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Wow that was way more information than I expected, I can't thank you enough, would you have any idea what something like this may be valued at? And the guy that brought it back from Germany claimed it had different barrel inserts and extractors that could be interchanged, he said he had them but over the years they got lost, does that sound possible to you??

 

[finnmike]

PM sent

 

[finnmike]

Guess he disappeared.....

 

[nextgenar]

Guess he disappeared.....

Lol didn't disappear just been crazy busy, had hernia surgery Last week And this week with the dry weather coming, been rushing around trying to get all my hay equipment up and running, while trying Not to rip the stitches out lol

 

[finnmike]

Stitches? Mine were glued. Just wanted to chat re values, potential buyers and the rumored accessories.

 

[nextgenar]

Stitches? Mine were glued. Just wanted to chat re values, potential buyers and the rumored accessories.

Ok sounds good, I will try to give you a call today or tomorrow, and interesting you got glued, they said they would either stitch or staple me, glad they went with stitches

 

[10der]

My uncle has a zimmerschueltzen as a display gun above his mantle. The muzzle was flared out like horn but sealed except for the bore. Very interesting to see another

 

[tac]

The gun of this style is actually called a 'Zimmerstuetzen' - the art of shooting it is Zimmerschuetzen. If you recall, the Germans, Austrians and even those fun-loving Swiss have Schuetzenfests every year in their towns and villages - 'schuetzen' means 'shooting' or to 'shoot'