38 Spcl vs357 Mag POI

[fluffy]

somebody out there has probably had the same problem. looking for some ideas on what might be a fix. what I have is a S&W mod 586 8-3/8 bbl.

at the range my light load 38 spcl rounds are dead on

my full power 357 mag loads are good for elevation, but bear to the left

as far as I can tell I've been using the same grip for both.

I'm new to wheel guns, so maybe I have to learn to hold it a different way? depending on the heat of the load? seems not right.

anybody have an idea?

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[RVTECH]

Reading 'between the lines' I gather you are thinking the both rounds should group similarly? Well this is simply not the case and few guns (especially handguns) will shoot any ammo to the same point of aim. There is a big difference between light .38 Special loads and heavier .357 Mag and the recoil (both real and anticipated) will have a bearing on where your shots ultimately group. Changing your grip or holding differently to 'compensate' is not a good idea as it eliminates consistency and will probably not change anything and will most likely make it worse. The correct thing to do is find a load you like and stick with it and adjust the sights accordingly. If the .38s shoot the way you want stick with them until you have a need for heavier ammo and re-zero accordingly.

 

[Flopsweat]

Great points. Also, if you want to use lighter, less expensive ammo to practice but still want to carry the full power .357 rounds, zero the gun with the heavy stuff and live with the fact that the .38 is going to shoot a little to the right.

 

[fluffy]

Great points. Also, if you want to use lighter, less expensive ammo to practice but still want to carry the full power .357 rounds, zero the gun with the heavy stuff and live with the fact that the .38 is going to shoot a little to the right.

thanks -- think I'll try to establish a "range card" with how much
offset from one to the other. I was amazed at how tight the light loads shoot.

 

[fluffy]

Reading 'between the lines' I gather you are thinking the both rounds should group similarly? Well this is simply not the case and few guns (especially handguns) will shoot any ammo to the same point of aim. There is a big difference between light .38 Special loads and heavier .357 Mag and the recoil (both real and anticipated) will have a bearing on where your shots ultimately group. Changing your grip or holding differently to 'compensate' is not a good idea as it eliminates consistency and will probably not change anything and will most likely make it worse. The correct thing to do is find a load you like and stick with it and adjust the sights accordingly. If the .38s shoot the way you want stick with them until you have a need for heavier ammo and re-zero accordingly.

thanks -- I was sure that would be the answer. but I don't have to like it.
I've been shooting a
Springfield XD in 357SIG and the difference in POI is not that noticeable.
spoiled me I guess.

 

[mjbskwim]

OK tell me that i am wrong on this.Saw this when reading about the 460 class calibers,watching the handgun twist peoples hands dramatically.
The bullet is flying straight till it hits the rifling,then it wants to stay straight but must turn to the right,twisting the gun to the left.
Maybe you don't want to change your grip but snug it up a little?

 

[Sabertooth]

I use 158 LSWC Keith bullets in my .38 spl an .357 mag. Lighter bullets did not work will an neither did heaver bullets. Build a V block barrel support an try your loads using the support. You may also have picked up a slight twitch when using full mag loads or anticipating the muzzle blast an recoil.

 

[fluffy]

OK tell me that i am wrong on this.Saw this when reading about the 460 class calibers,watching the handgun twist peoples hands dramatically.
The bullet is flying straight till it hits the rifling,then it wants to stay straight but must turn to the right,twisting the gun to the left.
Maybe you don't want to change your grip but snug it up a little?

you can experience the twist in a rifle as well. get used to shooting a 10/22 then switch to a hunting rifle with 30-06 loads. if your not paying attention when you light one off your going to wonder why the rifle is tilted on the bag when it comes out of recoil.

not holding hard enough might be some of the problem. guess I'll just have to go to the range and try it. heavy sigh!

 

[fluffy]

I use 158 LSWC Keith bullets in my .38 spl an .357 mag. Lighter bullets did not work will an neither did heaver bullets. Build a V block barrel support an try your loads using the support. You may also have picked up a slight twitch when using full mag loads or anticipating the muzzle blast an recoil.

twitch? me?

well maybe I should check that.

 

[Sgt Nambu]

Another thought, if the excellent advice above doesn't do it, pick your choice of loads and zero your revolver for them. When you shoot the other round/rounds don't expect them to be on the dot. Paper punching is all about the group size not location.

 

[Flopsweat]

Another thought, if the excellent advice above doesn't do it, pick your choice of loads and zero your revolver for them. When you shoot the other round/rounds don't expect them to be on the dot. Paper punching is all about the group size not location.

You mean like post #3? https://www.northwestfirearms.com/threads/38-spcl-vs357-mag-poi.190419/#post-1224082

 

[Sgt Nambu]

Well, I said it better!

 

[jbett98]

Might be "Pushing" in anticipation of the heavier recoil.

 

[BillGabby1]

Might be "Pushing" in anticipation of the heavier recoil.

View attachment 211885

Exactly my thought!
Gabby

 

[thorborg]

Try relaxing your trigger hand, grip with your support hand. I shoot a 45-70 revolver, a good grip does not require white knuckles.
Everything offered above can affect your impact point and you should play with them but the best advice found above is match your sight to your carry load and live with the rest.

 

[jbett98]

Insert a spent casing in the revolver when you load up on .357 Magnum ammo.
Rotate the cylinder so you don't know where it's placed and carefully watch what happens when you pull the trigger on the dud after a couple of live rounds.

 

[Riot]

Insert a spent casing in the revolver when you load up on .357 Magnum ammo.
Rotate the cylinder so you don't know where it's placed and carefully watch what happens when you pull the trigger on the dud after a couple of live rounds.

Or even place a .357 mag in the mix of .38SPC...will confirm the zero discrepancy.

 

[RVTECH]

Insert a spent casing in the revolver when you load up on .357 Magnum ammo.

Glad to hear this 'drill' has not become a 'has been'. Better yet though have a shooting partner load your revolver with any combination of loaded/spent casings but you consider it FULLY LOADED and fire SA at the target while your buddy watches from behind to see what you 'do' on the empty shots. It's better you concentrate on proper grip and trigger pull and let someone else watch so you do not necessarily anticipate the blank shot. This is very enlightening!

 

[Greenbug]

I don't think any of these replies are the answer, you obviously have a crummy gun that you should sell to me for cheap!

I probably would do like RV said and just adjust your sights when you are changing loads. With an 8 3/8" barrel you are probably not carrying it concealed like some suggested I imagine.

 

[BillGabby1]

Like RVTECH said:
I've used this with many of my pupils I was teaching to shoot including my wife who was a natural and could put your eye out with my Charter Undercover at 25 paces.
The results are instantaneous and obvious to the shooter and the observer, what is great is when the dud doesn't get a reaction from the shooters hands. Then you know and they know they are doing it right.
It's a good way to check yourself as well as mentioned before put a couple random empty cases in the wheel with the loaded ones while keeping your eyes closed and give it a spin and close the cylinder.
Commence firing! With your eyes OPEN dummy! LOL
Gabby