Poll: .308 piston "battle" rifles

[Jcon268]

Not putting down the Ruger in any way but it appears from doing a couple quick searches that they've discontinued the piston 7.62 from their lineup. Hoping to stick to designs in this conversation that are still currently in production, making them a bit easier to obtain.

 

[leadcounsel]

Hard to argue against the M1A, which is based on and an improved design over the infantry rifle that lead our men to victory in Europe, Africa, Asia, the Atlantic and the Pacific theaters and elsewhere around the globe in WWII. The Garand was dubbed the greatest battle implement ever designed by General Patton, who knew a thing or two. And the M1A is an improvement in many ways. And there have not been any vast improvements (in .308 class battle rifles) since the 1950s to my knowledge (some improvements on mounting optics aside, of course, but nothing game changing). The action is excellent, the ergos are fantastic, and it's simple to use and has great iron sights. It's still in DM service today in various units around the globe. That basic platform/design/action proved itself in WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm, OIF, OEF, and elsewhere. Hard to argue against it. The drawback is optics. One can replace the entire stock for a different setup to overcome that.

I also like the FAL quite a lot. 90+ nations adopted it for a reason. It's proven itself in battle. It has excellent ergonomics, sights, and mechanics. And the adjustable gas system is a plus. The drawback is optics.

If you can get a good AR10, that is obviously based on the AR15 setup and has excellent ergos and upgradeability. Problem is getting a good reliable one.

I have a PTR91. It's alright. The ergos are horrible IMO; the safety and mag release and charging handle and locations are awful. The main advantage is the inexpensive magazines, still around $1 each.

I like the AK and AR for intermediate firepower. Each has their own benefits and have a place in my stable.

Can't speak much to the others.

 

[Jcon268]

Hard to argue against the M1A, which is based on and an improved design over the infantry rifle that lead our men to victory in Europe, Africa, Asia, the Atlantic and the Pacific theaters and elsewhere around the globe in WWII. The Garand was dubbed the greatest battle implement ever designed by General Patton, who knew a thing or two. And the M1A is an improvement in many ways. And there have not been any vast improvements since the 1950s to my knowledge. The action is excellent, the ergos are fantastic, and it's simple to use and has great iron sights. It's still in DM service today in various units around the globe. That basic platform/design/action proved itself in WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm, OIF, OEF, and elsewhere. Hard to argue against it. The drawback is optics. One can replace the entire stock for a different setup to overcome that.

I also like the FAL quite a lot. 90+ nations adopted it for a reason. It's proven itself in battle. It has excellent ergonomics, sights, and mechanics. And the adjustable gas system is a plus. The drawback is optics.

If you can get a good AR10, that is obviously based on the AR15 setup and has excellent ergos and upgradeability. Problem is getting a good reliable one.

I have a PTR91. It's alright. The ergos are horrible IMO; the safety and mag release and charging handle and locations are awful. The main advantage is the inexpensive magazines, still around $1 each.

I like the AK and AR for intermediate firepower. Each has their own benefits and have a place in my stable.

Can't speak much to the others.

I'm surprised you're not familiar with PWS (Primary Weapons Systems) since they're based out of Boise. They have a pretty strong following in the "modern sporting rifle" industry.

 

[leadcounsel]

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FAL, For all it's goodness, there are a few downers that needs to be addressed! The Mag release isn't very big and isn't ambidextrous, BUT, it's a minor issue. No forward assist or manual way to close the bolt, proper training is the fix to what really ins't a problem, you clear any round that will not chamber and work the problem against a loaded mag, until it goes into battery, or you change mags!
The FAL will run when others don't, and accuracy is very very good, recoil is about the lightest of all, and the impulse comes strait back with almost zero muzzle jump, allowing you to stay on target and to track mush easier and faster for any followups if needed! You can also stomp the bolt open like a M1, so clearing a jamb or a broken case isn't an issue!
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The FAL mag lever is small, but it's ambi just as an AK is.
The FAL bolt release lever is on the left side immediately rearward of the magazine; it's a small hook, to pull directly down.

 

[leadcounsel]

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No, it's not battle tested like many of the other choices but I'd still trust my life to it. The battle proven are all excellent especially if you plan on open sights. Where they fall short (IMO the ONLY place they do outside of weight) is that if you do want optics then you need adapters as the rifles just weren't designed for them. I've just never been able to trust an optics mount that screws into the side of the receiver - just too duct tapey for me.

If it wasn't for my reasoning above then I'd go with the FAL or the Galil.

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Replace the top cover with a top cover that has a rail. Problem solved.

And the M1A can mount either a side mount or a rail mount on the front of the rifle. Or an albeit slightly heavy rail mount that runs atop the receiver. Or the Sage system.

These rifles can host mounts with a little bit of changing.

 

[The Heretic]

Replace the top cover with a top cover that has a rail. Problem solved.

And the M1A can mount either a side mount or a rail mount on the front of the rifle. Or an albeit slightly heavy rail mount that runs atop the receiver. Or the Sage system.

These rifles can host mounts with a little bit of changing.

Or there is a rail mount for the FAL that will take optics forward of the action - e.g., a red dot or scout scope.

I don't care for 'top cover' mounts on most 'battle rifles'. Usually the top cover is not solidly mounted enough to be a proper optics mount, and the machinations some go thru to make it solidly mounted will probably interfere with the field stripping of the action. This is especially true on Kalashnikovs. Side mounts that come up over the top of the action usually interfere even more, although they may be very solid.

In general I prefer a rail forward of the action for most rifles, hunting or military, unless they are specifically purposed as a precision rifle, which to me means more than just slapping a scope on top of the rifle.

 

[Stomper]

IMO the Galil is a superior rifle, but the FAL is what has superior parts and mag availability.

I waited for over TWO DECADES, but you can now actually buy excellent quality .308 Galil magazines at GunMagwarehouse.com for $27-ea..... repair parts, that may be a bit more of a challenge, but some AK internals could be reworked to make repairs.

The thing runs like a tuned sewing machine.




I'll stop posting this photo now.... LOL!

 

[Ura-Ki]

Yes, the FAL has a top cover rail replacement, its origionally the South African design but DSA makes them much stronger and they lock to the upper receiver with clamps on the cover rails! While they can be removed, its really best not to, and there really isnt a reason to need to ether!

 

[Boboclown]

DSA also makes one for paratrooper FALs.

I don't mind a top cover mount for the FAL.

 

[ORhutner]

I went with POF Revolution when I made my choice. Weight, familiar AR controls, POF's excellent reputation and level of quality and couldn't find any negative reviews. Been very happy with my choice.

 

[Goosebrown]

You asked for it, you got it!
AK, tough is they come, durable, reliable and will run most of the time no matter what you do to one, short of running it over with a T-72 to adjust the Sights, they are bomb proof!
M1A, Reliable when cared for and kept clean and fed well, accurate as any, better then most! Major down sides, they are a bugger to get an optic to run as the mounts are funky and tend to flex or come loose, very hard to get a good mount to stay solidly in place, Ask any one who has run a REAL M-21 and they will tell you how sensitive they can be. As a standard Fighting Rifle, they are one of the best, matched only by the FAL for reliability and accuracy! Major plus's, Very accurate, very reliable when kept spotless, self regulating gas system that compensates very well, only down side that can be fixed is adding a gas plug with a shut off for running suppressed!
SR-25 ( AR-10 pattern) can be very accurate when set up properly, tend to be heavy, and are extra sensitive to environmental influences, worse then the AR-15. Needs an adjustable gas system that can be throttled and also needs a matched buffer to deal with the gas system! Tend to be finicky with ammo/mags, especially if dirty or carbon fouled, but easy to service and few parts to break!
G-3 types, Forward charging handle is a major head ache all around, tends to carbon up and short stroke the bolt. The roller bolt must be dripping wet with oil and tends to run very dirty and will foul super easy. difficult to get the bolt clean and keep it clean, and recoil is a lot more stout then any other .308 rifle, with half a pound of bolt mass hitting you during the recoil, it's excessive! Field stripping isn't easy, and if you loose the rear pins, your screwed! Overall, they run well and can be very accurate if cared for and maintained constantly!
FAL, For all it's goodness, there are a few downers that needs to be addressed! The Mag release isn't very big and isn't ambidextrous, BUT, it's a minor issue. No forward assist or manual way to close the bolt, proper training is the fix to what really ins't a problem, you clear any round that will not chamber and work the problem against a loaded mag, until it goes into battery, or you change mags!
The FAL will run when others don't, and accuracy is very very good, recoil is about the lightest of all, and the impulse comes strait back with almost zero muzzle jump, allowing you to stay on target and to track mush easier and faster for any followups if needed! You can also stomp the bolt open like a M1, so clearing a jamb or a broken case isn't an issue!

As I posted above, NONE that are built from a kit or are a combo of parts from all over the place should be trusted until they have proven themselves reliable, and this includes the FAL, the AK, and all the HK types and AR's!
I have limited experience with the SIG and the SCAR's, and I would NOT recommend them until several issues are properly addressed, both involving the recoil system and piston drive, especially the SIG!
The Big Israeli are usually pretty dang good, but can be a bugger if you get a Kit built one, your going to have to work one to see how it runs, and chase any issues it may have, including getting a reliable batch of good mags, which are getting harder and harder to find, and 'spensive!
The HK types can really chew up mags and brass, so learn to deal with that as well if you choose to go that route!

AKs are not battle rifles, they are assault rifles.

 

[bsa1917hunter]

I hate the term "battle rifle". Remind me of all the Colt fan boys that say only Colt AR's are "battle rifles" . No offense OP.

ABC

 

[The Heretic]

AKs are not battle rifles, they are assault rifles.

Kalashnikov is an action type.

They are also made in 7.62x51, which makes those rifles a Battle Rifle.

 

[American123]

IWI - T7, .308 bullpup goodness. Don't even own one yet, but if it's anything as good as the SAR. Hands down. Seemingly the only reason we are still married to the Stoner design is because we've got so much money already invested in it.

 

[Boboclown]

IWI - T7, .308 bullpup goodness. Don't even own one yet, but if it's anything as good as the SAR. Hands down. Seemingly the only reason we are still married to the Stoner design is because we've got so much money already invested in it.

Its like a SAR but the SAR is better.

IWI admitted to giving up on accuracy and that it would be 2-3 MOA with match grade ammo.

 

[titsonritz]

M1A is Springfield Armory nomenclature M14, there are better M14s out there than todays M1As.

 

[American123]

Its like a SAR but the SAR is better.

IWI admitted to giving up on accuracy and that it would be 2-3 MOA with match grade ammo.

That's kinda a bummer for a $2000 gun. The SAR rocks though. Wonder if there is just too much going in the package for it to be able to pull it off. A lot of forces happening in a small area.

 

[ditchtiger]

Yes, the FAL has a top cover rail replacement, its origionally the South African design but DSA makes them much stronger and they lock to the upper receiver with clamps on the cover rails! While they can be removed, its really best not to, and there really isnt a reason to need to ether!

I've got one. Has held zero for years. and is drilled for a DSA shell catcher. That I also use.

 

[osprey]

The DSA railed top covers for the fal are rock solid in both the regular and para versions. The built in shell catcher mount holder is a blessing for reloaders as a Fal won't beat up brass like some of the other "battle rifles". Now some of the other cheaper top cover mounts, they are a different story, as I found they would not hold zero. Here is my Frankenfal with a para dsa railed top cover and red dot.

 

[Boboclown]

I'm using a stanag top cover on my FAL, and it doesn't even dent brass like the Galil Ace does.